Herman Cain: It's Your Fault if You're Unemployed

[Coito ergo sum]

Be real. Success in life is nearly 100% a matter of luck.

That depends on your definition of the word "success."

But, you be real, an adult making minimum wage only is not trying. We're not even really in the realm of "success" there. If a person wants to make over "minimum wage" that's a matter of choice. All you have to do is be willing to work and put in some hours.

[MattShizzle]

Bullshit. There's plenty of people who through no fault of their own can't get a job at all. And plenty who make minimum wage or little more so who are normal and work plenty hard. They just weren't lucky enough to be the one who got hired.

[Coito ergo sum]

Wait staff are one of the classes of employee that are exempt from minimum wage (be that right or wrong). It's rare to see a server who gets tips get paid min wage.

And, it's rare to see one that actually takes home only minimum wage. I've known a lot of people who waited tables in my life, and not a one of them would have stayed in a job for more than a couple weeks that only had them taking home minimum wage. They'd have told that place to pound sand quickly and gone to a restaurant where money could be made. Tips are part of the salary, and wait staff knows how much they make.

It's true, depending on the type of place you work - obviously there's the whole gamut. I've known servers who have worked in high-end restaurants and made quite a bit more than I do. But, I daresay that's not the norm - the rest struggle to get by as anyone else. It's not the sort of job I could do, simply for the anxiety that a varying income would give me.

Sure - they're not going to be millionaires. But, the point is that most of the ones I've known wouldn't come to work if they thought they'd even only make $11 an hour. That's the "living wage" that McShizzle is talking about. I don't know a single waitperson that doesn't make much more than $11 an hour when you include the tips. And, they pocket the cash tips whenever possible, so that's even better than W-2 wages since they don't get taxes taken out.

[Coito ergo sum]

Bullshit. There's plenty of people who through no fault of their own can't get a job at all.

...can't get the job they want at all. But, can't get a job? That's false.

And plenty who make minimum wage or little more so who are normal and work plenty hard. They just weren't lucky enough to be the one who got hired.

Yeah? Like who?

Making more than minimum wage is fucking easy, even without a job. Making $11 is embarrassing for anyone with a normal brain and non-disabled physical ability. A person can stand on the streetcorner and beg for more than $11 an hour. That's a fact.

Please, again, don't pretend like you're talking to someone who doesn't know what's up. I got my first job when I was 14 years old and was making more than minimum wage then because I worked fast. I made about $9 an hour during the summer. That was in the early 1980's. Why was it so easy for me? I went down to a minimum wage job in during school because I had to be walking distance from my house. I was no genius and had no particular skill to offer - just labor and a good work ethic.

[PsychoSerenity]

I really don't know what world you're living in, Coito.

[JimC]

Back to the OP...

It is clearly nonsense to blaim the unemployed for being "failures". Sure, there are a small minority of very lazy people who want to rort the system, but the majority of unemployed people (leaving aside an underclass of the psychologically disturbed) would love to be gainfully employed.

But neither is it useful to blame a company that has to close down, or reduce staff because of factors out of ther control. They can't run at a loss just to keep people employed...

Governments should be a lot more proactive, in helping the re-training of people in sectors of the economy that are in decline. Perhaps industries that are viable, and hopefully wanting to grow, should be given serious tax concessions for every unemployed person they retrain and then employ...

[amused]

Did someone mention pizza?



Nom!

http://conanspizza.com/menu

Conans Pizza!

[Seth]

Back to the OP...

It is clearly nonsense to blaim the unemployed for being "failures". Sure, there are a small minority of very lazy people who want to rort the system, but the majority of unemployed people (leaving aside an underclass of the psychologically disturbed) would love to be gainfully employed.

Not enough to go where the work is or do work that they consider beneath them. Which means they are willfully unemployed. As I said before, there are at least 12 million illegal aliens in the US, most of whom are working in menial, stoop-labor jobs. When every one of those jobs is held by an unemployed American, and all of those illegal aliens have returned to Mexico or wherever they came from because they can't find work here, then, and only then will I advocate for government welfare for the remaining unemployed Americans. Until then, the unemployed are, as Cain said, unemployed by choice because they don't like the selection of jobs that are available to them.

But neither is it useful to blame a company that has to close down, or reduce staff because of factors out of ther control. They can't run at a loss just to keep people employed...

And therein lies the single fact that reduces Marxist socialism (indeed socialism of every ilk) to a nullity. Socialists all think that the bourgeoisie merchant class is there to provide them with a job, and that it's government's job to make sure that the merchant class does so, even when it's not economically viable.

Governments should be a lot more proactive, in helping the re-training of people in sectors of the economy that are in decline. Perhaps industries that are viable, and hopefully wanting to grow, should be given serious tax concessions for every unemployed person they retrain and then employ...

Indeed. I'd even be willing to pay for bus tickets for the unemployed of the inner cities to be bussed to the onion fields to harvest crops.

[MrJonno]

Minimum wage not based on age in the US?, here in the UK it rises until you are 21 so the idea that minimum wage = childs wage is absurb.

About a million people out of a workforce of aroudn 30 million earn it but many people managed to get more on social security than minimum wage. The sad fact is so much that isnt enough work (which is true) but the fact society simply doesnt need a significant % of people. Machines do unskilled and semi skilled work that people would have done in the past.

Whether serving a Big Mac 'deserves' minimum wage is irrelevant when its getting to the point here were soon you will need a degree to be even considered for such a position

[MattShizzle]

There never will be enough jobs for everyone period, let alone decent jobs. Another thing is people won't simply sit back and starve or do shit work for minimum wage - they'll take what they need by force if necessary - can you blame them? And even if caught it will cost more to keep them in jail then it would cost to have paid them even $50,000 a year beforehand.

[MrJonno]

There never will be enough jobs for everyone period, let alone decent jobs. Another thing is people won't simply sit back and starve or do shit work for minimum wage - they'll take what they need by force if necessary - can you blame them? And even if caught it will cost more to keep them in jail then it would cost to have paid them even $50,000 a year beforehand.

Very true modern capitalist societies simply couldnt function without a welfare state, no welfare state doesnt mean more capitalism it means communism and the rich getting shot by the poor which certainly isnt good for the rich but isnt so hot for the poor long term either

[Bella Fortuna]

Minimum wage not based on age in the US?, here in the UK it rises until you are 21 so the idea that minimum wage = childs wage is absurb.

No. It's the same for any worker in the workforce, but the minimum varies by place.

[MrJonno]

Minimum wage not based on age in the US?, here in the UK it rises until you are 21 so the idea that minimum wage = childs wage is absurb.

No. It's the same for any worker in the workforce, but the minimum varies by place.

Bit silly that a no skilled 16 year old doesnt justify the same wage even a no skilled but hopefully a bit more mature 21 year old (through need to have laws to make sure people don't get sacked on their birthday)

[Bella Fortuna]

Minimum wage not based on age in the US?, here in the UK it rises until you are 21 so the idea that minimum wage = childs wage is absurb.

No. It's the same for any worker in the workforce, but the minimum varies by place.

Bit silly that a no skilled 16 year old doesnt justify the same wage even a no skilled but hopefully a bit more mature 21 year old (through need to have laws to make sure people don't get sacked on their birthday)

I agree and never realised you had that system there... interesting approach!

[Coito ergo sum]

I really don't know what world you're living in, Coito.

The real one.