Palestine v Israel.

[Svartalf]

any government that does that will see the Jewish vote swing en masse to the other party come next elections, and a few more in the future....

[pErvinalia]

There would be no cuts as the Israelis would have no option but to agree.

[Brian Peacock]

A single state with the people who perpetrated October 7th... what could possibly go wrong.

There's issues on both sides, but there's already a single state, it just happens to be an oppressive apartheid state.

If all else fails, just indulge in facile bothsidesism.

Nah. Not bothsideism, just an acknowledgement that the sentiment you expressed cuts both ways, and thus is something that needs to be addressed in a serious and consistent manner - iff one is interested in long-term peace and security for all the civilians of Israel-Palestine.

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs has been collating data on injuries and fatalities in Israel-Palestine since 2008. In the period up to 2023 95% of the c.7000 fatalities in the conflict had been on the Palestinian side (317 Israeli, 6736 Palestinian). If one factors in estimates of casualties on and since October 7 last -- c.1200 Israeli, c.20,000 Palestinian -- then that figure drops to 94% plus change. 77% of the casualties since 2008 have occurred since October 7 with Palestinians accounting for 94% of fatalities since then. I've been generous with Palestinian casualty figures here as the PHA currently puts fatalities at over 24,000 with c.6000 unaccounted for.

So, in aping your response to my suggestion that all parties along with the international community need to prioritise and work towards negotiated peace and the promotion of a secular, free, democratic 'one state solution', one might also say, "A single state with the people responsible for 95% of the fatalities... what could possibly go wrong?" Of course, this wouldn't be very helpful, would it?

Your charge of bothsideism implies that I'm applying a false balance between the action or intent of both parties, AND that this is improper because the Palestinian side bear the major portion of responsibility. And yet, if one were to actually apply this fallacy of equivocation to the situation at hand Israel would clearly bear the brunt. This wouldn't be very helpful either, would it?

However, I am not saying that, and I think you know it. If this situation is to move forward towards a peaceful resolution then one has to acknowledge where we're starting from and address, and ultimately resolve or put aside, the sectarian impulses by which one party seeks to place the responsibility for their actions on the action or intent of the party they are acting against.

... 2 million Arabs live in Israel, where they enjoy equal rights and serve in government, the judiciary, the army etc.

2 million people lived in Gaza where they didn't enjoy equal rights or serve in government, the judiciary, the arm etc and were subject to the structural apartheid of strict Israeli control and restrictions. Remember, the context of this is my suggestion of moving towards a 'one state solution' that grants all civilians equal status and equal rights of citizenship and representation.

How many Jews live in the Palestinian Territories?

According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, about 670,000 in the West Bank and East Jerusalem - excluding the populations of 'outpost' settlements not recognized by the Israeli authorities.

[Tero]

No space.

Netanyahu’s spokesman claimed that in a phone call with Biden, the Israeli leader told the US president that his country’s security needs left no space for a sovereign Palestinian state.

“In his conversation with President Biden, prime minister Netanyahu reiterated his policy that, after Hamas is destroyed, Israel must retain security control over Gaza to ensure that Gaza will no longer pose a threat to Israel, a requirement that contradicts the demand for Palestinian sovereignty,” a statement from the Israeli prime minister’s office said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... nian-state

[Brian Peacock]

Well that's not the kind of 'one state solution' I had in mind.

[aufbahrung]

Not gonna be many of them rapistilians for the soft thinkers left to defend the way its going.

[rainbow]

Not gonna be many of them rapistilians for the soft thinkers left to defend the way its going.

Not all Israelis are rapists.

[Svartalf]

only those that conduct violent expeditions in gaza and palestinian settlements

[aufbahrung]

I guess there's only one way to find out how bad they are after you choose your enemy in the meaningless conflict. Autopsy.

[rainbow]

I guess there's only one way to find out how bad they are after you choose your enemy in the meaningless conflict. Autopsy.

What are you on?
What are you on about?

[pErvinalia]

It's better not to ask questions..

[aufbahrung]

It's better not to ask questions..

They'll find their no different from one another - arguing over the invisible friends specifics ultimately...

[pErvinalia]

See what i mean, rainbow?

[JimC]

"Zen and the art of aufbahrung"

[Brian Peacock]

ICJ rules there are grounds to investigate Israel for genocide and urges the Israeli govt to review it's approach and facilitate humanitarian assistance to Gazans. Israel calls the ICJ the "anti-Semitic court".