A 10 year old with balls.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

He understands love and he knows the adults have something called a marriage but did he actually sit down and read through the history of marriage? The cultural aspects, the traditionalists and the religious ethos that surrounds it?

I haven't, but I'm only 58 years old. And only been married 3 times.

[floppit]

He understands love and he knows the adults have something called a marriage but did he actually sit down and read through the history of marriage? The cultural aspects, the traditionalists and the religious ethos that surrounds it?

Like Zilla I haven't done the above but out of curiosity what do you think he might have missed by not having done so that would impact on whether or not both gay and straight couples should have equal access to marriage if that's their choice?

My personal take on it is that it's a very individual thing and what matters is that a couple share or accept each other's understanding of marriage, make public promises that reflect their genuine wish and that the state accepts those promises as valid and important to the people who make them.

[maiforpeace]

He understands love and he knows the adults have something called a marriage but did he actually sit down and read through the history of marriage? The cultural aspects, the traditionalists and the religious ethos that surrounds it?

Like Zilla I haven't done the above but out of curiosity what do you think he might have missed by not having done so that would impact on whether or not both gay and straight couples should have equal access to marriage if that's their choice?

My personal take on it is that it's a very individual thing and what matters is that a couple share or accept each other's understanding of marriage, make public promises that reflect their genuine wish and that the state accepts those promises as valid and important to the people who make them.

+1

Why is such a thorough understanding of marriage needed to legitimize the child's truth?

[charlou]

I think children are far better at cutting through the bullshit, if encouraged/allowed to think for themselves, than many people give them credit for. We can learn a lot from them in that.

[angrychimp]

Like Zilla I haven't done the above but out of curiosity what do you think he might have missed by not having done so that would impact on whether or not both gay and straight couples should have equal access to marriage if that's their choice?

If he wonders why so many people oppose gay marriage, then he should do the homework and examine the subject from the other perspective.

My personal take on it is that it's a very individual thing and what matters is that a couple share or accept each other's understanding of marriage, make public promises that reflect their genuine wish...

I get what you're saying. I do. I've heard it from every liberal this side of the Pacific.

...and that the state accepts those promises as valid and important to the people who make them.

and here. Would gays care so much about marriage itself if it didn't affect the finances the way it does?

[charlou]

Would gays care so much about marriage itself if it didn't affect the finances the way it does?

Would anyone? Why single homosexual people out here?


For many people, regardless of sexuality, finances are not the only consideration in favour of marriage.


Marriage aside, the financial consideration for couples is important in law. Recognising homosexual couples' (married or not) financial rights and responsibilities are no different to those of heterosexual couples (married or not) is very important.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Would gays care so much about marriage itself if it didn't affect the finances the way it does?

Would anyone? Why single homosexual people out here?

+1

That's the crux of the matter. Straight couples are encouraged to marry by favourable tax incentives. Whatever other reasons there are for getting married - children, making a public commitment, parental pressure - that is a big plus to a couple considering the step. Without it, I would expect a dramatic drop-off in the number of knots tied.

[floppit]

If he wonders why so many people oppose gay marriage, then he should do the homework and examine the subject from the other perspective.

You still haven't said what it is he might learn which would have any impact on whether the rights should be equal or not.

My personal take on it is that it's a very individual thing and what matters is that a couple share or accept each other's understanding of marriage, make public promises that reflect their genuine wish...

I get what you're saying. I do. I've heard it from every liberal this side of the Pacific.

...and that the state accepts those promises as valid and important to the people who make them.

and here. Would gays care so much about marriage itself if it didn't affect the finances the way it does?

Quite frankly I had very little idea about tax law. The second weekend my hubby came to see me we got together as more than friends, by the Wednesday of that week either we would either deceive each other or be open that life from there on in was being thought about as a couple - I'd made my choice, he'd made his. Marriage was only saying publicly what had already happened and been said between us. It had FA to do with taxes! When my best friend got married it was about the state giving their relationship equal weight. She had just watched me almost lose David and how medical staff viewed me as a wife, being a nurse herself she had plenty to compare it with - even after 10 yrs together she knew it would be much less likely she'd get the same treatment as a spouse without a piece of paper - again FA to do with taxes!

I know you say you are pro equal rights and I believe that intellectually you have decided it's the only truly defendable conclusion but that doesn't mean you feel it's right and the issues you still have come across loud and clear in your responses. That 'us them' way of thinking causes people hurt, a hurt hard to really put into words, one that meant my best friend had to think really carefully before deciding to wear a ring. While the law might have changed in many places the experience is still one that leaves people knowing their love, their partnerships are often seen as worthless.

If you do hold that there ought to be equal rights then perhaps you can find the motivation to move the concept from head to heart. I don't give a rats bahooey how liberal or fluffy that sounds, there are real world consequences which make it worth saying a 1000 times.

[angrychimp]

You still haven't said what it is he might learn which would have any impact on whether the rights should be equal or not.

There's always the possibility he might change sides. There might be a republican deep inside waiting to burst out.......unlikely but still possible.

If you do hold that there ought to be equal rights then perhaps you can find the motivation to move the concept from head to heart. I don't give a rats bahooey how liberal or fluffy that sounds, there are real world consequences which make it worth saying a 1000 times.

I appreciate your responses floppit. It's clear how much effort and thought you put in and I hope I didn't cause any serious offense.
Sometimes people (like me) let politics get in the way of what's ultimately more important.

I still think the kid should keep away from the media for about a decade or so but I won't keep harping on about it.


And no cwalker, i'm not admitting defeat. Especially to you.

You either Rum! (pinko jerk)

[cursuswalker]

And no cwalker, i'm not admitting defeat. Especially to you.

Consider yourself attack-snogged.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

and here. Would gays care so much about marriage itself if it didn't affect the finances the way it does?

Do you think they wouldn't? The status of spouse gives benefits worth more than money. Being able to claim the body of a loved one, for example, when his or her family has disowned them because of their lifestyle. The deceased would go to a pauper's grave in some states while their lover is shut out of the process because of a lack of legal status. Same with visiting a severely ill person, "Next of Kin Only" rules.

[Mysturji]

My daughter's spare parents are gay...

What?
I agree with everything else you said in that post, but I find that statement truly bizarre.
What the hell is a spare parent, how many coupons do you need collect to get one, and are batteries included?

As to angrychimp's controversial statements I think I know where he's coming from. (BTW, WTF is that avatar?)

I see hetero's kissing I think (if she's attractive) "You lucky sod."
I see lesbians kissing I think (if they're attractive) "...but what a waste."
I see male gays kissing, I think

I find the idea of male homosexual sex disgusting. Just the way I am: hetero, and I make no apology for that.

But... (and this is the point I think angrychimp and I are both trying to make)

I also think Brussels sprouts are disgusting, but I DON'T think they should be illegal. I just don't want them on my plate.

What consenting adults do in private is nobody else's business and I honestly don't care. But different people have different sensibilities.
Somebody mentioned abattoirs. There's occasionally a news story about neighbours complaining when someone's religious celebrations include slaughtering an animal on their front lawn. No-one is saying they're not allowed to eat meat, but some things are probably best done in private.

And before people jump down my throat, consider that we are all products of the society we grew up in, and most of us have changed many of our opinions through a sense of right & wrong, and sheer force of will.
And also consider the title of this thread, and how no-one has (yet) batted an eyelid at its sexist overtones.

I wasn't myself when I wrote that.
No offence meant. I apologise for any that may have been taken.

[charlou]

I wasn't myself when I wrote that.
No offence meant. I apologise for any that may have been taken.

There's a naughty chair around here somewhere ...

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I wasn't myself when I wrote that.
No offence meant. I apologise for any that may have been taken.

There's a naughty chair around here somewhere ...

[Mysturji]