Confederate Flag to Fly at City Hill in Belleview, Florida

[mistermack]

Will people please stop talking about nazis as if they were all bad ?

I'm sure there were some bad eggs, but very few people actually knew, beyond rumour, about the death camps. If you heard it, would you actually believe it? The wisdom of hindsight is a wonderful thing.

And I don't see black people queuing up to leave the US for Africa.
A lot of those slaves would have been slaves in Africa, if they hadn't been slaves in America.
Slavery and raiding wasn't invented because of America.
In the old days, without the American market, they might have just been robbed, raped and murdered.

[Brian Peacock]

Do you disavow the charge that the Confederate flag has a certain and particular association with Southern far-right and white- supremacist groups 42?

Do I deny support for the charge that the confederate flag has an association with southern far right and white supremacist groups? I don't think that's a coherent question. But, if what you mean is, do I deny the charge that the confederate flag is used by southern far right and white supremacist groups? Of course not. Some racists like to waive that flag. So? Some racists wrap themselves in the American flag. They can't have that one to themselves either, IMO.

Do yoy think the conferderate flag holds a particular significance for those groups, or just that their association with the flag isn't particularly significant?

[Brian Peacock]

Will people please stop talking about nazis as if they were all bad ?

I'm sure there were some bad eggs, but very few people actually knew, beyond rumour, about the death camps. If you heard it, would you actually believe it? The wisdom of hindsight is a wonderful thing.

And I don't see black people queuing up to leave the US for Africa.
A lot of those slaves would have been slaves in Africa, if they hadn't been slaves in America.
Slavery and raiding wasn't invented because of America.
In the old days, without the American market, they might have just been robbed, raped and murdered.

So one might say that slavery was a kind of civilizing force, and if someone was going to cash in on slavery then it might as well have been colonial cotton barons as anybody else?

[Hermit]

Let's fly the swastika in honour of Third Reich History Day, not to honour the holocaust. Would that too be OK with you?

I would not equate the Third Reich with the Confederacy, actually, as the historical context is considerably different.

I do not equate the Third Reich with the Confederacy either, actually, and yes, the historical context is considerably different. Nevertheless, a parallel is obvious. The Confederacy was first and foremost about defending the right to own slaves. The Third Reich was first and foremost about the supremacy and superiority of the Aryan race. If we condone the flag under which the confederates fought to achieve their purpose on the grounds that it is part of history to be celebrated, what is the objection to flying the German national flag of that time? Just flying it to celebrate the history of the German people at that point in time, you know. Nothing to do with the holocaust.

[Forty Two]

Flying it to remember history is not "condoning" slavery. And, the short-lived nation had more going on than just slavery. It wasn't a nation of murderous, genocidal maniacs. It was a country of Americans, who on both sides fought the most costly, in terms of lives, war the United States ever fought. It was a war of brothers, and one that ended with the brothers who had knives to each other's throats, ultimately embracing in brotherhood once more. There is more to remembrance than advocacy of what now is viewed as a monstrous institution. Let's not forget that for 10,000 years, slavery was the norm, and accepted as moral. The south was not an anomaly.

[JimC]

I think it would be pretty clear to blacks in the south what the implications are when a government building flies the confederate flag...

[NineBerry]

Flying the Confederate flag to honour the American civil war history is like flying the Japanese flag to honour Pearl Harbour History or like flying the Union Jack to remember the Boston Tea Party

[Hermit]

Flying it to remember history is not "condoning" slavery.

You could not choose a worse symbol for not condoning slavery.

And, the short-lived nation had more going on than just slavery.

Slavery was the Confederate States of America raison d'être, and the battle flag and the navy jack were its emblems.

At a pinch I could almost understand the yokels using the first national flag to symbolise the slave states's history. At least they could sort of pretend that they are not pining for the days when 'dem niggers knew their place, and when they could be whipped, chained or shot into place if they didn't. Of course almost all of Florida's arseholes will vehemently deny that they want a return to slavery, but if they were sincere about it they would not keep raising the flags of the confederate army and navy with such unbridled enthusiasm.

[mistermack]

So one might say that slavery was a kind of civilizing force, and if someone was going to cash in on slavery then it might as well have been colonial cotton barons as anybody else?

And anyone who bought a cotton item.

Same thing is going on today. We all buy cheap stuff made by virtual slaves. And it IS seen as progress for the slaves, giving them a way out of poverty.

[Brian Peacock]

Indeed, I'm sure the 8-year-old children who sew your undies are grateful for the 0.25c per 100 they receive.

[laklak]

0.25c/100? Luxury.

[pErvinalia]

They should try living on nothing and a smack upside the head. Ungrateful little shits!

[mistermack]

Dress up in white, and serve Massa his dinner, or do fifteen hours gluing soles onto trainers?
I'd probably opt for the first.

Yassir Massah !

Or I could be in charge of the chickens. It never did Chicken George any harm.
Mind you, the Massah was his Daddy.

[Forty Two]

Do you disavow the charge that the Confederate flag has a certain and particular association with Southern far-right and white- supremacist groups 42?

Do I deny support for the charge that the confederate flag has an association with southern far right and white supremacist groups? I don't think that's a coherent question. But, if what you mean is, do I deny the charge that the confederate flag is used by southern far right and white supremacist groups? Of course not. Some racists like to waive that flag. So? Some racists wrap themselves in the American flag. They can't have that one to themselves either, IMO.

Do yoy think the conferderate flag holds a particular significance for those groups, or just that their association with the flag isn't particularly significant?

Yes, depending on which group you're talking about.

Do you deny that the third flag of the confederacy holds significance, historical or otherwise, to some people which is apart from slavery?

[Forty Two]

Flying the Confederate flag to honour the American civil war history is like flying the Japanese flag to honour Pearl Harbour History or like flying the Union Jack to remember the Boston Tea Party

The Japanese do fly their own Japanese flags regarding their own history, and even as the official flag of the country. The red dog flag has been around since 1870 and flew during the Japanese imperial expansion of the early 1900s, when they raped and murdered their way through the Pacific and far east, committing near acts of genocide in their own bid for racial superiority. It's still their flag today, even thought it flew over the Asian holocaust, which included murder/massacres, mass rape, starvation, torture, human experimentation, chemical and biological warfare and even "forced labor" (slavery).

The British Union Jack is not flag-non-grata in the US. Hawaii's flag has the British flag in its top left corner. The Grand Union Flag, 1775, also has the British flag in the top left corner, with red and white stripes like the current US flag. There would be no issue flying that flag, a flag that was official before 1776, even though it has the British flag in it. And, there is no problem flying the British flag in general in the US, even though it "represents" colonialism, empire and oppression, and slavery (slavery in British colonies continued until 1838 -- not so long before it was abolished in the US). British merchants were among the largest participants of the slave trade (triangular trade).