College or Daycare? What difference does it make?

[Hermit]

I don't know what the answer is, or even if there is an answer, or if it needs an answer. I'm confused. I saw young adulthood as the greatest opportunity of my short life, I couldn't fucking wait to get out and DO shit. That's why I found myself, at the age of 23, pushing a 20 man survey crew across Northern Nigeria, running topo for the Kaduna-Kano highway and living in a pop-up trailer. I see the students in our area (we're right between two state universities), and find the idea of them eating "wild rabbit" (cane rat) on a stick absolutely hilarious.

There are certainly young people who have it sussed out, and who can take care of themselves. I know quite a few, but not one is a university student. They're mechanics, plumbers, divers, boat crew, roustabouts on offshore rigs, that sort of thing. They'd be dismissed out of hand by the Special Snowflakes, because they really don't give a shit about non-gendered pronouns, and most of them hunt, fish, own guns and do all sorts of non-social-justicey things. They give me hope for the future.

[JimC]

Agreeing with some of what you say, Brian, but also thinking it is possible that, by seeming to make "being stressed", even at very low levels something that needs a program of some sort to solve it, that we may be creating a generation with low levels of personal resilience, and a tendency to need problems solved for them.

No one is forcing them to colour in.

No, but they are being offered it...

Somehow I think this whole campus thing is a US phenomenon. My youngest has spent the last 3 years at uni (on a gap year now), and neither he nor any of his friends exhibited any of the crap 42 goes on about...

[JimC]

One thing to remember is that EVERY adult generation has whinged about how soft their kids are. 42 and Lak Lak's generation were soft little petals compared to their parent's generation. Basically, this is just old people whinging because the world is leaving them by.

[Scot Dutchy]

One thing to remember is that EVERY adult generation has whinged about how soft their kids are. 42 and Lak Lak's generation were soft little petals compared to their parent's generation. Basically, this is just old people whinging because the world is leaving them by.

Well I am older than those two and I would agree with them. Sorry seeing young people today is seeing a pathetic generation. They are scared of the world. Terrified of leaving the hotel of mum and dad. Unless they can be guaranteed the same lifestyle they will not move. All off to uni to get their noddy degrees and then surprised when there is no work. So what do they do? Go back to the hotel of mum and dad.

[pErvinalia]

Old people complaining. Who would have thunk it?

[Svartalf]

shut up whippersnapper, andf get off my lawn.

[pErvinalia]

[Forty Two]

...
The issue in the OP involves a college program for adults attending university. Color away your stress, they say, because, what? The 12 credits the average student takes in college is so difficult? What's so stressful? They hear opinions they don't like? They're over the age of 18 and their girlfriend broke up with them?

My take is what stresses other people is their business not mine

Certainly, but once you're using university resources, paid for via tuition and/or tax money, to fund toddler activities for adults, it becomes other people's business.

- but that doesn't mean I have to remain deaf to their concerns, however seemingly trivial. Moralising over who should be stressed, by what, and to what extent doesn't get one very far -

Nor is it what I did. What helps me with stress is watching NFL football and having a few beers. Why do they get crayons and coloring books, but I don't get beer and the NFL Sunday Ticket package?

and generally comes across as an absence of personal insight, compassion or empathy etc. I mean, my Mum really has nothing to be stressed about if my Dad drives at 1mph above the speed limit - but nonetheless it is the source of real anxiety ever since she was involved in a minor road traffic incident.

That doesn't mean we state or university sponsor stress relieving activities for your mum.

My Dad, to his credit, tempers his own frustration at being told to slow down by the knowledge that stressing my Mum out for 3 hours isn't good for her, or him.

Does his stress about being told to slow down count for naught? Of course not, he has to know what's good for him and slow down.

Now, if college students are exposed to and/or experience prolonged stress then that obviously has the potential to impact on their academic achievements - so regardless of whether I think they're being pussies or not it doesn't seem out of order for an educational institution to acknowledge it or to try remedies that aim to do something about it about it.

Everyone experiences stress, and there are wide varieties of stressors. Almost anything can be a stressor, and what is a stressor to some people is a big nothing to other people. And what relieves stress is likewise widely varied, and crayons may be relaxing to person X and porno movies may be relaxing to person Y and shooting at the gun range may be relaxing to person Z. The issue is not that people aren't allowed to be stressed by what their stressed by, and relieved by what their relieved by. The issue is picking one supposed stress reliever and funding it as a college program for adults, who are supposed to be old enough to figure out what relaxes them and relieves their stress on their own.

One might even say that if students are stressed then their educational institutions have some duty of care to acknowledge it, at the very least

Nonsense. These are adults. There is no duty of care that they have to help their students destress. If they had such a duty, then they would have to afford similar relief to all students. Everyone gets stressed out in life, but most adults aren't relieved of this stress by coloring books. There is no single thing that destresses all people and even destresses the same person under different conditions. So, if a duty exists to destress the students, then they need to be providing a lot more than coloring books.

- particular the younger students with the least experience of life.

What, like child prodigies? Or, by younger, do you mean an 18 year old?

Of course, I'm from a generation that didn't acknowledge stess; we just didn't do it; we didn't even 'believe' in it as a real thing; acknowledging it was considered a sign of namby-pamby personal weakness; etc. Instead we just pressed our social and academic anxieties down into a tight black knot at our core, pretended everything was alright, and went to the pub to get pissed and laugh at the wimps who's parents had to come and take them out of university. I'm not suggesting a bit of colouring-in is going to 'cure' a young person of their stresses, but it at leasts creates a forum where stresses can perhaps be identified and acknowledged - with a view to addresses them in a more substantive manner.

Why is going to the pub less valid than coloring books as a destressor? It's up to everyone to destress when they are stressed. It's not up to universities to set up programs for them.

Nothing cures anyone of their stresses except themselves. Either you get your mind right with what's causing you stress, or you get rid of the problem that's causing stress - even then, with no identifiable "causes" a person can still be stressed. Life is full of stress. I have stress about supporting my family. I had stress at age 18 about registering for classes, doing well in school, having girlfriends, and being popular among my peer group -- all important stressors at the time. What the heck business is it of the University to provide me with hobby materials to use to help relieve my stress? Answer -- it's not their business. And, if I'm chipping in for a program to provide hobbies, then I don't want it to be coloring books.

[Forty Two]

One thing to remember is that EVERY adult generation has whinged about how soft their kids are. 42 and Lak Lak's generation were soft little petals compared to their parent's generation. Basically, this is just old people whinging because the world is leaving them by.

the difference is that when it comes to college, things have never been easier. Courses are dumbed down, most people take far fewer credits than 30, 40 and 50 years ago, and more and more students are enrolled in far less demanding major courses of study. And, add to that the fact that far more students finish in 5 or 6 years now, rather than the normal 4.

Nowadays, college students take an average of five years and 10 months to graduate-- for students who began college within one year of finishing high school. For those that start later, it's even longer. At most universities less than 20% of students graduate in 4 years.

Most college students are taking, then, 12 credit hours per semester, or 4 courses of three credits each, average. Classes meet twice each week normally, for day students, so that's a class or two each day, and they last maybe 45 minutes to 90 minutes depending on the class. So, let's call it 3 hours per day class time, max, on average. And,

Average study time is about 10 to 13 hours per week, according to most studies. So, call it 25-30 hours per week in class and studying total, to be rather generous about it.

Now, as the old coot, I had to take 18 credit hours per semester to graduate in 4 years, and had to study much more than 10-13 hours per week to handle the courseload. Students in majors that required 15 credit hours per semester were considered to have a light load. Taking 12 hours was if you were basically part time, and had a job.

Something has, in fact, changed.

The problem with these coloring book type programs to destress adult students from the vicissitudes of daily life, is that they enable dependent behavior. My three year old goes to a part-time preschool, and she is, by virtue of that, subjected to stressors. Upsetting and stressful things happen to my three year old - relationships with fellow students, demands of learning, demands of play, demands of daily routines and bodily functions, etc. For that age group, these stressors are just as valid as an adult's daily life stressors. What's the solution? Provide her with diversions to get her mind off of what she has to grapple with? No - part of the solution is to set expectations and require that they be met. My kid's school does that - kid is stressed about where to put her lunch box? Do we coddle her and go color? No - we pick her up on her feet, put the box in her hand and get her to figure out where it goes. Having trouble with pee pee or poo poo? What do we do? Go coloring? No - you walk her through the bathroom process and require her to do it on her own, including wiping, flushing and washing, etc. Interpersonal problems? Learn how to deal with them. Someone is pushing? What do you do? This does NOT mean that TEACHING does not occur -- nobody is just left to fend for themselves - TEACHING is what a school is for. So, the teachers TEACH them to handle these stressful situations.

That makes the preschool different from a daycare. At a daycare, stressful situations are handled via toys and coloring books. Don't teach them to handle things, just warehouse them and let them play until mom and dad comes and gets them.

That's analogous to the coloring books for college folks to destress program. Oh, you're stressed by the registration process? Stressed by upcoming exams? Stressed by the pressure of picking a major? Stressed about friends and romance? --- How about programs to demystify the registration process? How about extra study for the exams -- study groups - a tutor -- to learn the material? How about guidance programs that advise about how and why to pick a major? How about reading books about major fields of study, what you learn in them and what expected outcomes are? That kind of thing.

No, let's just warehouse the "kids" and let them spend hours of valuable time coloring to destress, instead of learning, and developing the skills to handle stressful events in life.

[pErvinalia]

...
The issue in the OP involves a college program for adults attending university. Color away your stress, they say, because, what? The 12 credits the average student takes in college is so difficult? What's so stressful? They hear opinions they don't like? They're over the age of 18 and their girlfriend broke up with them?

My take is what stresses other people is their business not mine

Certainly, but once you're using university resources, paid for via tuition and/or tax money, to fund toddler activities for adults, it becomes other people's business.

Colouring is supposed to have mental health benefits. So in case of stressed people, it's not "toddler activities".

- but that doesn't mean I have to remain deaf to their concerns, however seemingly trivial. Moralising over who should be stressed, by what, and to what extent doesn't get one very far -

Nor is it what I did. What helps me with stress is watching NFL football and having a few beers. Why do they get crayons and coloring books, but I don't get beer and the NFL Sunday Ticket package?

Because universities are organisations that provide services to people who are part of the organisation. Who do you expect to provide you with beer and NFL tickets?

Now, if college students are exposed to and/or experience prolonged stress then that obviously has the potential to impact on their academic achievements - so regardless of whether I think they're being pussies or not it doesn't seem out of order for an educational institution to acknowledge it or to try remedies that aim to do something about it about it.

Everyone experiences stress, and there are wide varieties of stressors. Almost anything can be a stressor, and what is a stressor to some people is a big nothing to other people. And what relieves stress is likewise widely varied, and crayons may be relaxing to person X and porno movies may be relaxing to person Y and shooting at the gun range may be relaxing to person Z.

No one is forcing everyone, or every stressed person, to colour-in.

One might even say that if students are stressed then their educational institutions have some duty of care to acknowledge it, at the very least

Nonsense. These are adults. There is no duty of care that they have to help their students destress.

Exactly. And the same should apply to employment. Employers should have no duty of care to their employers and visitors on their site. GIVE ME FREEDUM OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!

If they had such a duty, then they would have to afford similar relief to all students.

Isn't this service available to all students?

Everyone gets stressed out in life, but most adults aren't relieved of this stress by coloring books. There is no single thing that destresses all people and even destresses the same person under different conditions. So, if a duty exists to destress the students, then they need to be providing a lot more than coloring books.

How do you know that they aren't provided other methods to destress as well?

Of course, I'm from a generation that didn't acknowledge stess; we just didn't do it; we didn't even 'believe' in it as a real thing; acknowledging it was considered a sign of namby-pamby personal weakness; etc. Instead we just pressed our social and academic anxieties down into a tight black knot at our core, pretended everything was alright, and went to the pub to get pissed and laugh at the wimps who's parents had to come and take them out of university. I'm not suggesting a bit of colouring-in is going to 'cure' a young person of their stresses, but it at leasts creates a forum where stresses can perhaps be identified and acknowledged - with a view to addresses them in a more substantive manner.

Why is going to the pub less valid than coloring books as a destressor? It's up to everyone to destress when they are stressed. It's not up to universities to set up programs for them.

That's what universities do.

Nothing cures anyone of their stresses except themselves.

Who said otherwise? How is that in anyway incompatible with people choosing to avail themselves of available services to help them get through their studies?

Either you get your mind right with what's causing you stress, or you get rid of the problem that's causing stress - even then, with no identifiable "causes" a person can still be stressed. Life is full of stress. I have stress about supporting my family. I had stress at age 18 about registering for classes, doing well in school, having girlfriends, and being popular among my peer group -- all important stressors at the time. What the heck business is it of the University to provide me with hobby materials to use to help relieve my stress? Answer -- it's not their business. And, if I'm chipping in for a program to provide hobbies, then I don't want it to be coloring books.

"Back in my day...", says the old conservative.

[pErvinalia]

One thing to remember is that EVERY adult generation has whinged about how soft their kids are. 42 and Lak Lak's generation were soft little petals compared to their parent's generation. Basically, this is just old people whinging because the world is leaving them by.

the difference is that when it comes to college, things have never been easier.

QED. No need for me to read any further.

[laklak]

Imagine managing these sorts in an actual work environment.

[Forty Two]

...
The issue in the OP involves a college program for adults attending university. Color away your stress, they say, because, what? The 12 credits the average student takes in college is so difficult? What's so stressful? They hear opinions they don't like? They're over the age of 18 and their girlfriend broke up with them?

My take is what stresses other people is their business not mine

Certainly, but once you're using university resources, paid for via tuition and/or tax money, to fund toddler activities for adults, it becomes other people's business.

Colouring is supposed to have mental health benefits. So in case of stressed people, it's not "toddler activities".

Everyone is a stressed person. In the case of people with a diagnosed mental disorder, sure it can be part of therapy, as can a lot of other things. But, we're not talking about therapy here. Therapy comes from a professional who is treating or caring for a patient.

- but that doesn't mean I have to remain deaf to their concerns, however seemingly trivial. Moralising over who should be stressed, by what, and to what extent doesn't get one very far -

Nor is it what I did. What helps me with stress is watching NFL football and having a few beers. Why do they get crayons and coloring books, but I don't get beer and the NFL Sunday Ticket package?

Because universities are organisations that provide services to people who are part of the organisation. Who do you expect to provide you with beer and NFL tickets?

I am talking to Brian, who would understand that my use of the word "I" was putting myself in the place of a student at the university. If you need it spelled out so literally for you -- "What helps some students with stress is watching NFL football and having a few beers. Why don't they get beer and the NFL Sunday ticket?"

Now, if college students are exposed to and/or experience prolonged stress then that obviously has the potential to impact on their academic achievements - so regardless of whether I think they're being pussies or not it doesn't seem out of order for an educational institution to acknowledge it or to try remedies that aim to do something about it about it.

Everyone experiences stress, and there are wide varieties of stressors. Almost anything can be a stressor, and what is a stressor to some people is a big nothing to other people. And what relieves stress is likewise widely varied, and crayons may be relaxing to person X and porno movies may be relaxing to person Y and shooting at the gun range may be relaxing to person Z.

No one is forcing everyone, or every stressed person, to colour-in.

No, but they are supplying it. College students are perfectly capable to heading to the dollar store and picking up coloring books and crayons. I have no beef with someone like you who needs to color with crayons to avoid crumbling under the stress of choosing a major, but having a college program choosing coloring as the destressor of choice for students who use that to destress is rather arbitrary and unfair. The rest of the students who are just as stressed, but are fairly normal and don't destress with coloring books are supposed to deal with their stressors themselves, I guess. Destressing at the gun range or destressing watching football won't be included.

One might even say that if students are stressed then their educational institutions have some duty of care to acknowledge it, at the very least

Nonsense. These are adults. There is no duty of care that they have to help their students destress.

Exactly. And the same should apply to employment. Employers should have no duty of care to their employers and visitors on their site. GIVE ME FREEDUM OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!

They don't have a duty to address an employee's "stress" at work. They do have a duty to provide a safe working environment. But, if an employee claims his work is stressing him out and he can't handle it, the employer is under zero duty to supply destressing materials for the employee.

The law could change, of course, and employers could be saddled with such a duty, if the idiots have their way. Then employers will put up coloring rooms and afford employees stress time to watch cartoon puppies on t.v. and color Anna and Elsa until they're ready to come back to work. Thankfully, that isn't the law or society we live under or in, yet. But, the SJWs are working on it.

If they had such a duty, then they would have to afford similar relief to all students.

Isn't this service available to all students?

I just explained that it isn't. It's only afforded to those students for whom coloring addresses their stress. For the rest of us, who are stressed too, but who have other means of relaxation, we don't get that stuff for free. And, that's, again, we meaning other students at the school.

Everyone gets stressed out in life, but most adults aren't relieved of this stress by coloring books. There is no single thing that destresses all people and even destresses the same person under different conditions. So, if a duty exists to destress the students, then they need to be providing a lot more than coloring books.

How do you know that they aren't provided other methods to destress as well?

Because I read the articles about it the program. They aren't providing a variety of other methods. Moreover, even if they provided fuzzy bunnies, and back massages, they would not be providing, and it would not be feasible to provide, the means for all students to destress. Everyone has stress. Some students should be afforded free videogames - because many students use videogames to relieve stress. Some students should be afforded free books, because they read to destress. Some students go to the movies and play board games to destress. Some go to the gun range and shoot targets or skeet.

Pretty much every hobby people engage in is a stress reliever. Model trains, miniature rockets, putting together legos, model airplanes, pyrography, etc. Schools have a duty to care for my stress! Give me my wood supplies, wood burning tool, stencils and other materials!

Of course, I'm from a generation that didn't acknowledge stess; we just didn't do it; we didn't even 'believe' in it as a real thing; acknowledging it was considered a sign of namby-pamby personal weakness; etc. Instead we just pressed our social and academic anxieties down into a tight black knot at our core, pretended everything was alright, and went to the pub to get pissed and laugh at the wimps who's parents had to come and take them out of university. I'm not suggesting a bit of colouring-in is going to 'cure' a young person of their stresses, but it at leasts creates a forum where stresses can perhaps be identified and acknowledged - with a view to addresses them in a more substantive manner.

Why is going to the pub less valid than coloring books as a destressor? It's up to everyone to destress when they are stressed. It's not up to universities to set up programs for them.

That's what universities do.

Bollocks. What university is there to provide hobbies for the purpose of helping adults cope with the stressors of daily life? Universities are there to educate, to teach. They aren't there to provide hobbies for their students to engage in. A student can sign up for an art class, and pay for it, and learn how to draw, paint, sculpt, etc. That's what a university does. It doesn't set up programs for people to destress. It's a course for students to master drawing and painting, etc. A student may sign up for archery -- it's not a destressor per se, although many people find archery a help in relieving their stress -- it's a college course where the object is to learn and master the technique of archery.

Nothing cures anyone of their stresses except themselves.

Who said otherwise? How is that in anyway incompatible with people choosing to avail themselves of available services to help them get through their studies?

Already explained. It's because the choice of coloring books is arbitrary, selective, and it is therefore a university sponsored bonus afforded to SOME stressed individuals (those for whom coloring is a hobby that helps them relieve stress). Affording those people their hobby, at the expense of all other students whose hobbies are not funded by the university is unfair.

In addition, choosing coloring over much cooler hobbies, preferences the silly SJWs, who appear to want these stress-rooms available to them, with videos of puppies playing, blocks, puzzles and coloring books, to help them not be "triggered" by Christina Hoff-Sommers when she speaks at the university. If anyone's hobbies should not be preferred, it's those folks' hobbies. I think the people whose stressors are relieved by board game playing should be catered to long before the coloring book crowd.... let's see if you're too obtuse to understand that point.

Either you get your mind right with what's causing you stress, or you get rid of the problem that's causing stress - even then, with no identifiable "causes" a person can still be stressed. Life is full of stress. I have stress about supporting my family. I had stress at age 18 about registering for classes, doing well in school, having girlfriends, and being popular among my peer group -- all important stressors at the time. What the heck business is it of the University to provide me with hobby materials to use to help relieve my stress? Answer -- it's not their business. And, if I'm chipping in for a program to provide hobbies, then I don't want it to be coloring books.

"Back in my day...", says the old conservative.

What in that paragraph is a "back in my day" item. It says nothing of the kind. I referred to current stress supporting my family, and the stress I had at age 18 (both of which I stated, explicitly, were just as valid -- nothing wrong or wimpy about being stressed -- everyone is stressed). Saying it's not the business of the university to provide students with hobby materials to relieve stress, especially when those materials are highly selective and only preferred by a certain small group of students, is not the business of the school.

[Forty Two]

One thing to remember is that EVERY adult generation has whinged about how soft their kids are. 42 and Lak Lak's generation were soft little petals compared to their parent's generation. Basically, this is just old people whinging because the world is leaving them by.

the difference is that when it comes to college, things have never been easier.

QED. No need for me to read any further.

LOL - except that I proceeded to prove that assertion. There is objective evidence to support it.

[Forty Two]

Imagine managing these sorts in an actual work environment.

There is nothing a fully-loaded 60+ hour per week manager likes better than an SJW raising the very valid concern of the color of the drapes being "problematic." That's what makes a company run efficiently and serve its customers to the fullest.