More than half of Britons want to ban the burqa

[JimC]

I did try to answer that question, Brian, by asserting that the male-enforced complete covering of body and face of women is both oppressive and, particularly by removing the vital language of facial expression, a very real deterrence to communication in an open society.

[pErvinalia]

I don't know how you got all that from what I said but you could try articulating your concerns about the fashion choices of Muslim women with a bit more than trite he-said-she-said contrarianisms. Whether you will try or not is another matter.

Rastafarianism is an inherently sexist faith. Christianity is morbidly bigoted on so many issues, from a woman's right to have dominion over her own body to acknowledgement of LGBT rights, and more. So why must we take the burkah to be a more serious or profound talisman of religious adherence than any other religious talisman, whether that be a crucifix, a bumper stick, a haircut, a hat, or ritual tattooing - and why is that particularly problematic?

It's not that it's a talisman. It's an actual oppressive article.

[JimC]

I don't know how you got all that from what I said but you could try articulating your concerns about the fashion choices of Muslim women with a bit more than trite he-said-she-said contrarianisms. Whether you will try or not is another matter.

Rastafarianism is an inherently sexist faith. Christianity is morbidly bigoted on so many issues, from a woman's right to have dominion over her own body to acknowledgement of LGBT rights, and more. So why must we take the burkah to be a more serious or profound talisman of religious adherence than any other religious talisman, whether that be a crucifix, a bumper stick, a haircut, a hat, or ritual tattooing - and why is that particularly problematic?

It's not that it's a talisman. It's an actual oppressive article.

Yes. The muslim headscarf could be seen as a talisman, an identifier of belonging to a particular religion. It could be subjected to minor criticism, but a ban would be clearly an over reaction.

The burqa, on the other hand, with its removal of human identity, is another beast altogether, and for reasons I've already outlined earlier, its detrimental effects outweigh the civil liberties issues to the point where, on balance, I can see that a ban (if supported by a clear majority) would be a valid response.

[pErvinalia]

I don't support the ban, but I can see why they are pursuing it.

[JimC]

The only problem I see is that it could become a rallying point for red-necked racists, and possibly encourage anti-muslim violence.

[rachelbean]

[JimC]

A false cartoon in some ways, if the intention is to make "western males" the equal in oppression to fundamentalist muslims, in that they apparently demand women be in underwear or bikinis.

We are not all Hugh Hefner...

All I want is for women not to be forced by men to not show their faces...

[pErvinalia]

A false cartoon in some ways, if the intention is to make "western males" the equal in oppression to fundamentalist muslims, in that they apparently demand women be in underwear or bikinis.

We are not all Hugh Hefner...

Cuck.

[rachelbean]

No, the point is in both cases it is men making decision for women, and only women. A burqa ban does not hurt the men that impose restrictions on women. It only serves to further alienate and isolate the women who are suffering in the first place. In the end trying to combat extremism by putting restrictions on what women are wearing can only be counter-productive.

[JimC]

No, the point is in both cases it is men making decision for women, and only women. A burqa ban does not hurt the men that impose restrictions on women. It only serves to further alienate and isolate the women who are suffering in the first place. In the end trying to combat extremism by putting restrictions on what women are wearing can only be counter-productive.

But are those burqa-wearing women making choices for themselves, or are they trapped in a culture that makes choices for them?

And the bikini thing cannot be seen as "men making choices for women" in any coercive sense of the term "making choices". It may involve a certain amount of cultural pressure, but not to the extent of "wear a burqa or never leave the house"...

[NineBerry]

And the bikini thing cannot be seen as "men making choices for women" in any coercive sense of the term "making choices". It may involve a certain amount of cultural pressure, but not to the extent of "wear a burqa or never leave the house"...

As we have seen in France recently, the police will intervene when women don't wear bikinis.

But are those burqa-wearing women making choices for themselves, or are they trapped in a culture that makes choices for them?

Lol, what a double standard. Do you not remember that female user from RDF who had been a western convert to Islam and posted the picture of her wearing the niqab holding a copy of The God Delusion?

[JimC]

And the bikini thing cannot be seen as "men making choices for women" in any coercive sense of the term "making choices". It may involve a certain amount of cultural pressure, but not to the extent of "wear a burqa or never leave the house"...

As we have seen in France recently, the police will intervene when women don't wear bikinis.

But are those burqa-wearing women making choices for themselves, or are they trapped in a culture that makes choices for them?

Lol, what a double standard. Do you not remember that female user from RDF who had been a western convert to Islam and posted the picture of her wearing the niqab holding a copy of The God Delusion?

I don't see why that is a double standard from me. I can't help it if someone has been infected by a toxic mind virus...

And no, it's not when "women don't wear bikinis"

They can do the one piece, or even the old neck to knee. If you have read my points in this thread, it is all about the crushing of individual freedom which comes from culturally-enforced total face covering which is the real issue...

[NineBerry]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... versy.html

[pErvinalia]

And the bikini thing cannot be seen as "men making choices for women" in any coercive sense of the term "making choices". It may involve a certain amount of cultural pressure, but not to the extent of "wear a burqa or never leave the house"...

As we have seen in France recently, the police will intervene when women don't wear bikinis.

Nup. Pretty sure you can still wear a t-shirt at the beach.

[Scot Dutchy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... versy.html

The Daily Wail? Must be a none news story. It is.