Munich Shootings

[pErvinalia]

it can't be "all [mass shootings were prevented]" as there's been a fuckload of mass shootings that weren't prevented.

[Seth]

it can't be "all [mass shootings were prevented]" as there's been a fuckload of mass shootings that weren't prevented.

Ah, but all the ones that WERE prevented were prevented by good guys with guns and I defy you to prove otherwise. Don't blame me for idiotic questions.

[pErvinalia]

I should have guessed you would fuck up simple reading comprehension regarding that question. It doesn't ask how many that were prevented were prevented by good guns. It asked how many out of the total were prevented.

[Seth]

I should have guessed you would fuck up simple reading comprehension regarding that question. It doesn't ask how many that were prevented were prevented by good guns. It asked how many out of the total were prevented.

Wrong. It's you that has the cognitive deficiency.

The question asked was, specifically, "Just for the record, Seth, how many mass shootings were prevented in the last 50 years by good guys with guns?"

The answer is "all of them" and I defy you to prove otherwise. You are trying to move the goalposts.

Tero didn't ask, "Of all the mass shootings in the last 50 years, how many times did good guys with guns put a stop to in-progress shootings?"

He asked how many mass shootings were prevented. That means "did not occur as a result of good guys with guns." The answer is "all of them" because every mass shooting that did not occur did not occur because somebody or many millions of somebodies classified as "good guys", be it civilian, police, or military, had a gun or guns. You see, when a mass shooting doesn't occur because the potential shooter decides not to make the attack because there might be someone around who is armed to stop him, then the shooting is "prevented" by good guys with guns.

You see, nobody can possibly know how many crimes, including mass shootings, are prevented each year in the US because of the threat to the criminal that an armed citizen will kill them instead. We do know that some 2.5 million times per year citizens DO use their guns to stop in-progress crimes or deter potential attacks, usually merely by showing that they have a firearm.

We infer from the steadily-dropping violent crime rates in the US, combined with the massive expansion of public concealed carry, along with interviews with incarcerated violent felons who tell us that their behaviors changed when they realized they might get shot and killed, that widespread concealed carry does in fact reduce violent crime merely because criminals don't know who might have a gun to shoot them with. The same reasoning applies to potential mass shootings which may have been "prevented" by the potential perpetrator deciding not to make the attack because he might be killed before achieving his objective. We infer this from the fact that all of the recent mass shootings worldwide have occurred in places where private citizens (and even soldiers) are prevented from carrying defensive firearms. The only recent exceptions are the sniper attacks on police officers, and it's certainly true that the cops who shot and killed these snipers were "good guys with guns."

So fuck off.

[pErvinalia]

tl;dr.

Reality called and wants a word with you.

[Sean Hayden]

You're underestimating Americans. You see, if we had fewer guns we'd manage to shoot even more people.

-bad ass-

[JimC]

Shooter looks increasingly like a crazy person, not a jihadist...

[cronus]

Shooter looks increasingly like a crazy person, not a jihadist...

Never knew there was so much discernment in you Jim C? I couldn't tell the difference and still can't.

[JimC]

Shooter looks increasingly like a crazy person, not a jihadist...

Never knew there was so much discernment in you Jim C? I couldn't tell the difference and still can't.

There are important differences, even though the crazy part (disregard for other human lives) is in common...

[Brian Peacock]

Islam and Christianity. Someone should have introduced him to atheism....he and lot more would still be alive.

Unlikely. Atheism offers nothing by way of moral suasion or advice, especially no moral prohibitions on killing other people. Atheism is the essence of nihilism and provides exactly zero moral suasion or emotional control to anyone. The fact is that atheism has killed more people than Christianity and Islam and every other religion in the history of mankind, and it did so in the last hundred years or so. Atheism and it's utter lack of moral message has killed more than 100 million people, usually en masse.

The notion that Atheism is morally superior to anything is complete idiocy.

I dont find your argument very suasive :hehe

You imply that religious indoctrination imbues moral normitivity without explaining how or why subscribing or adhering to a religion's moral code is a neccesary condition of moral reasoning or ethical action, nor how an absence of god belief necessarily leads to emotionism and moral turpitude and ethical laxity?

Did an atheist hurt you very badly? Youre among friends now. Share your pain.

[pErvinalia]

It's the typical conservative mindset. An inability to trust that humans can be moral without authoritative oversight. I'm not sure why Seth even bothers to pretend he's a libertarian any more..

[rainbow]

it can't be "all [mass shootings were prevented]" as there's been a fuckload of mass shootings that weren't prevented.

Ah, but all the ones that WERE prevented were prevented by good guys with guns and I defy you to prove otherwise. Don't blame me for idiotic questions.

Yes, but you were blamed for providing an idiotic answer.

Now go and sit in the corner and think about how you can improve next time.

[pErvinalia]

"Think"? You might be asking too much..

[NineBerry]

The point about conversion to Christianity is not confirmed. Seems to be another case of our interior minister De Maiziere pulling fact out of thin air during a press conference. Still, "David" is the official name, not "Ali". Guy seems to have been non-religious, but "friends" report that he expressed nationalistic ideas, anti-turkish ideas and anti-semitic ideas.

Those friends (actually just members of an online gaming clan that he had joined) and class mates also report previous threats of committing a shooting.

He had been in a mental hospital for two months in 2015 and since still been under treatment for social phobias and depression.

The attack has been planned for more than one year. He had visited the scenes of the Winnenden school shooting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting) some months ago (photos of these settings were found on his digital camera).

Gun and munition were bought via the darknet. 7 of the 9 killed were killed from close proximity and within the first two minutes. Besides the other two killed with the gun were only three other persons wounded by the gun. All the other people wounded were not wounded by the attacker but suffered from the mass panic, some even kilometres away from the settings when there were rumours about a shooting and people paniced. So, the guy was not a very good shot. Only killing from close proximity using surprise factor.

[Seth]

Shooter looks increasingly like a crazy person, not a jihadist...

Yes, more like a school shooter...using an illegal gun with the serial numbers filed off...in a country were getting a gun at all is extremely difficult and requires loads of paperwork and it's almost impossible to get a permit to carry that gun in public.

Deranged criminal gets illegal gun in a country where it's extremely difficult to legally get a gun and uses it illegally despite it being illegal for him to get the gun illegally without a background check, psychological evaluation, paperwork or a permit or use it illegally to illegally kill people.

Fat lot of good all of Germany's draconian gun-control laws did.

There's a lesson there for those with more than fractional wit.