Alton Sterling: Video 'shows US police shooting black man'

[laklak]

It's getting ugly, that's for sure. Mrs. Lak is mumbling about how we need to move back to Africa where we'll be safe. I tell her not to worry, I'm locked and loaded and I keep the pit gators hungry.

[Seth]

Yep, the guy in the picture is a stupid douchebag no matter what the circumstances. I'm most definitely NOT a supporter of open carry in general, too many chances for a simple misunderstanding to escalate into a clusterfuck of lethal proportions. Besides, the reason concealed carry works is you don't know who is armed.

Right, and the only time anyone should see your weapon is when the muzzle flash goes off, and it should be the last thing he sees, should you be legally justified in taking it out of your holster.

[Seth]

Hmm. Interesting to hear Seth's views on the Philando Castile killing by officers who watched him die without offering aid after shooting him four times at close range with two others in the car, one of whom was a minor. However, I suspect the ultimate conclusion will go something like...

No, I think the officer probably acted wrongfully in shooting, but I'm prepared to reserve judgment because we only have the word of the woman that the victim was legally entitled to carry, and just such a tactic might well be used to cause an officer to hesitate just long enough to get shot himself.

Not much the cop could have done besides wait for medics anyway, and the rule is that if you shoot someone you do NOT approach them, you keep them covered and wait for backup, the premise being that if it's a lawful shoot you might not have killed the individual and he may be lying doggo waiting for you to "offer aid" before he attacks again...or the woman could have done so as well.

Whatever happened before the shooting, his actions afterwards, that I saw, were completely within protocol.

[Seth]

I did. But it looks very much like shooting someone who later turns out to be a bad black man is OK while shooting someone who later turns out to be a good black man is problematic.

These unfortunate circumstances aside, cops act on appearances and the information they have. They have no time to speculate and the decision is a split-second one in most cases. That is why, when approached by the police, one cooperates, follows commands, and moves VERY slowly.

One wonders how much effort The Lone Voice Of Reason would put into justifying the shooting of Philando Castile if he later turned out to be one of those bad black man - and one might also be forgiven for thinking that as far as some police officers are concerned there isn't any other type of black man

We don't yet know for certain that he was not a "bad black man." We have only the video, which is incomplete, and the woman's claims, which are unverified. There is no video evidence of the events preceding the shooting or the shooting itself, so it's all speculation at this point.

I'm not really picking Seth's scabs here (well, no much), but the whole shoot first and sort out the rights-and-wrongs afterwards approach is failing the wider community and police officers alike,

What's the alternative you suggest? Do we require police officers to give the bad guy the first shot before they can draw their weapons? Would you do so in identical circumstances? It's easy to armchair-quarterback what happened, but it's also ignorantly stupid to do so, particularly if you have no training or real understanding of what police officers in the US face on a daily basis.

and this is just the latest in a long line of high-profile killings where white authority figures are excused--and even comforted--for shooting unarmed black men and boys.

Er, as far as we know now about the two incidents, both men were in fact armed, so your complaint is not really accurate to begin with.

And while this has been going on a long time there seems to be a general up-scaling of aggression and fear on both side since the Trayvon Martin shambles.

And why is that? Have neighborhood security guards gone on a spree of shooting unarmed black men and boys who have not attacked them? Have the police begun machine-gunning black protest crowds at random?

Nope.

The common denominator is radical black activists dancing on the graves of the dead in a bald-faced attempt to foment and incite racial violence and hatred of the police.

[Brian Peacock]

Feel better?

[JimC]

He'll only feel better when someone prizes his spleen out of his cold, dead hands...

[pErvinalia]

[Brian Peacock]

Outside of my sporting activities I've had little cause to fight, and in handful of situations where I have one could hardly say they where fights to the death. This lends as much weight to my opinions as it does to yours - which is none.

Wrong.

Which is not to say that my past sporting activities have not involved personal interactions predicated on the application of overwhelming force. What martial training instils in one is first and foremost an attitude of respect and a real sense of honour - as well as a high regard of virtuosic skill for its own sake. Beating an unarmed opponent with a 2ft rubberised flashlight requires little skill while imo the point-blank shooting of an outnumbered person, either an angry person on the ground or a compliant person in a car, requires no skill at all, nor does it reflect an attitude of respect or a sense of personal honour.

[laklak]

[Seth]

Feel better?

Much. Thanks for asking.

[Seth]

He'll only feel better when someone prizes his spleen out of his cold, dead hands...

Why do you think I come here if not to vent my spleen? It's therapeutic.

[Seth]

Outside of my sporting activities I've had little cause to fight, and in handful of situations where I have one could hardly say they where fights to the death. This lends as much weight to my opinions as it does to yours - which is none.

Wrong.

Which is not to say that my past sporting activities have not involved personal interactions predicated on the application of overwhelming force. What martial training instils in one is first and foremost an attitude of respect and a real sense of honour - as well as a high regard of virtuosic skill for its own sake. Beating an unarmed opponent with a 2ft rubberised flashlight requires little skill while imo the point-blank shooting of an outnumbered person, either an angry person on the ground or a compliant person in a car, requires no skill at all, nor does it reflect an attitude of respect or a sense of personal honour.

Indeed. What requires respect and personal honor is NOT shooting someone who is trying to bite your thumb off or get to his gun so he can shoot you dead. Sometimes however the actions of the suspect dictate the level of force required, and most of the time, the vast majority of cases in fact, it is that respect and honor that distinguishes almost all police officers today from the Gestapo of the Third Reich.

I would be interested to hear, based on your vast experience and training with "the application of overwhelming force," just how you would have "skillfully" handled a situation where a violent drug addict had your thumb between his teeth and was determined to bite it off. Care to enlighten us as to your expertise on such things?

We'll get to what you'd do if someone was trying to pull a gun on you to kill you later.

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

We'll get to what you'd do if someone was trying to pull a gun on you to kill you later.

Not really a problem for us in the civilised world...

[pErvinalia]

I saw a graphic saying that there was something like 30-40 armed citizens at that rally. Did that stop the people killing those cops? No. Did they take out the gunmen? No. I thought the solution to solving gun crime was to have everyone armed?

[Seth]

Seth wrote:

We'll get to what you'd do if someone was trying to pull a gun on you to kill you later.

Not really a problem for us in the civilised world...

Tell it to all the people killed by guns...or knives...or clubs...or gasoline bombs...or Semtex. It's not a problem for you until it is, and then it's too late to arm yourself for self defense, which is fine with me since I don't give a fuck if you get yourself killed. What bothers me is when European fuckwits try to export their fuckwitted ideas to the US, as the UN is trying to do at this very moment.

That ain't gonna happen and there will be many blue helmets with holes and splattered brains in them if they try, is my suspicion.