Brit NHS "Free Healthcare for All" lie.

[Seth]

All your examples show, is that Americans are regularly refusing treatment, because of the potential cost involved. Something I was already well aware of.

Over here, that happens with dogs and cats. In the USA, it's people too.

My own cousins in the US are paying for healthcare for one of their number, after his insurance stopped paying. He had perfectly good insurance, and a job. He lost his job, and insurance cover, due to illness.
Now they all chip in to pay cash for his treatment.

How very third world.

And everyone else should be required to chip in involuntarily why, exactly? How did his personal health decisions and misfortunes become my financial burden to solve? I have my own medical issues to deal with and pay for. I'm terribly sorry, but I simply don't have enough money to help everyone else in the US with their health problems. That may be unfortunate, but frankly my health is more important to me than yours is. You deal with your health problems and I'll deal with mine and we'll both suffer the consequences of our decisions and our fate.

[JimC]

...and the devil take the hindmost...

[Seth]

...and the devil take the hindmost...

Fallacious appeal to emotion, pity and the consequences of a belief.

Just because I think it wrong for the majority to forcibly extract revenues from everyone in order to serve some minority interest that the taxpayer involved is neither part of nor responsible for doesn't mean that charity, altruism and rational self interest still do not apply and occur.

It just means that it's immoral for the majority to extract what it wants at gunpoint rather than asking nicely and persuading people to donate voluntarily.

[JimC]

Funny, I don't remember the Australian taxman arriving at my doorstep brandishing a sub-machine gun...

[Hermit]

Funny, I don't remember the Australian taxman arriving at my doorstep brandishing a sub-machine gun...

Me neither. Not even when I was seven years behind with my tax returns and owed an amount approaching the six digit mark in arrears. My failure to pay my dues was resolved via emails and filling in forms. No fines, let alone jackbooted SAS tax units pointing firesticks at me. In the end I paid a general interest charge on the outstanding amount, as you would have to with any loan you got from a bank, which the tax department discounted by 50% as a result of me asking for a discount via email on the ground that I, well, basically because I didn't feel like paying the standard rate.

[mistermack]

Seth's double standards are on show.
Anything a government enforces that he doesn't like is done ''by force'', and infringes his liberties to do otherwise.
But all of the other things, which he doesn't personally mind, don't seem to be a problem.

It's not the principle, it's ''don't do what Seth doesn't like''.
Most laws have some people objecting to them. You would have to scrap nearly all of them, if everyone had a veto.

If the government passes health insurance laws, you have to live with them, like every other law.

My advice to Seth is ''adapt or die''.
Or fuck off somewhere else, if you can't face either.

[Seth]

Funny, I don't remember the Australian taxman arriving at my doorstep brandishing a sub-machine gun...

Try not paying your taxes. Eventually, if you resist long enough and hard enough, they will show up at your doorstep with machine guns. I guarantee it.

[Seth]

Funny, I don't remember the Australian taxman arriving at my doorstep brandishing a sub-machine gun...

Me neither. Not even when I was seven years behind with my tax returns and owed an amount approaching the six digit mark in arrears. My failure to pay my dues was resolved via emails and filling in forms.

And most importantly paying the taxes you owed.

No fines, let alone jackbooted SAS tax units pointing firesticks at me. In the end I paid a general interest charge on the outstanding amount, as you would have to with any loan you got from a bank, which the tax department discounted by 50% as a result of me asking for a discount via email on the ground that I, well, basically because I didn't feel like paying the standard rate.

And yet in the end you paid up, so they didn't need to dispatch the SWAT team. Eventually however, had you refused to pay long enough and intransigently enough, the SWAT team would have appeared at your door and they would have shot you dead.

Thus, the government can legally kill you for not paying taxes. QED

[JimC]

What utter bullshit. There may be court orders, there may be court imposed liens on your property, their may even be an arrest warrant after a long period of wrangling, but not men with machine guns.

[Seth]

What utter bullshit. There may be court orders, there may be court imposed liens on your property, their may even be an arrest warrant after a long period of wrangling, but not men with machine guns.

I guarantee that if you resist long enough and forcefully enough, there will be machine guns pointed at you, and eventually used against you if you continue to resist.

[JimC]

What utter bullshit. There may be court orders, there may be court imposed liens on your property, their may even be an arrest warrant after a long period of wrangling, but not men with machine guns.

I guarantee that if you resist long enough and forcefully enough, there will be machine guns pointed at you, and eventually used against you if you continue to resist.

In your country, perhaps, since you would have gun nutters holed up in a fortress house armed to the teeth, daring the authorities to do a Waco...

Here, the ultimate would be a simple arrest, with a burly copper or two being enough. Australian police do not carry machine guns as a matter of course, because we belong to the civilised world...

And anyway, fuck the freeloaders who selfishly do not want to pay their fair share via taxes!

(sure, there can be a robust political debate about what constitutes a fair share, and the overall level of taxation, but that can be decided at the ballot box, not by a romantic wild west shoot out...)

[Seth]

What utter bullshit. There may be court orders, there may be court imposed liens on your property, their may even be an arrest warrant after a long period of wrangling, but not men with machine guns.

I guarantee that if you resist long enough and forcefully enough, there will be machine guns pointed at you, and eventually used against you if you continue to resist.

In your country, perhaps, since you would have gun nutters holed up in a fortress house armed to the teeth, daring the authorities to do a Waco...

It'll happen in your country to, and in any country in the world. Governments cannot, by their nature, allow individuals to flout the law without taking action because it renders government impotent when the populace knows it will not use force to bend the citizenry to its will,

Here, the ultimate would be a simple arrest, with a burly copper or two being enough. Australian police do not carry machine guns as a matter of course, because we belong to the civilised world...

Unless you resist them with enough force, in which case the machine guns will definitely come out.

And anyway, fuck the freeloaders who selfishly do not want to pay their fair share via taxes!

That's beside the point.

(sure, there can be a robust political debate about what constitutes a fair share, and the overall level of taxation, but that can be decided at the ballot box, not by a romantic wild west shoot out...)

The fact remains that government, any government anywhere, will ultimately use deadly physical force against those who resist the commands of government strongly enough. If they don't, they become impotent and soon fall.

[Hermit]

Funny, I don't remember the Australian taxman arriving at my doorstep brandishing a sub-machine gun...

Me neither. Not even when I was seven years behind with my tax returns and owed an amount approaching the six digit mark in arrears. My failure to pay my dues was resolved via emails and filling in forms.

And most importantly paying the taxes you owed.

No fines, let alone jackbooted SAS tax units pointing firesticks at me. In the end I paid a general interest charge on the outstanding amount, as you would have to with any loan you got from a bank, which the tax department discounted by 50% as a result of me asking for a discount via email on the ground that I, well, basically because I didn't feel like paying the standard rate.

And yet in the end you paid up, so they didn't need to dispatch the SWAT team. Eventually however, had you refused to pay long enough and intransigently enough, the SWAT team would have appeared at your door and they would have shot you dead.

Thus, the government can legally kill you for not paying taxes. QED

No SWAT team turned up at my door in seven years of not paying taxes I have owed. How many more years, do you think, I'd have to wait before it kicked my door in and threatened me with machine guns? Here's a newsflash: It has never happened since Australia came into existence 114 years ago, and I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen one day.

However, I do recall one incident that occurred in the USA recently when a government agency tried to collect rental that was 20 years in arrears and was confronted by lolbertardian snipers.

[Seth]

However, I do recall one incident that occurred in the USA recently when a government agency tried to collect rental that was 20 years in arrears and was confronted by lolbertardian snipers.

And what happened? The government backed off. Thus is proven the value of an armed citizenry against government overreach and tyranny.

It's taking other measures right now, but ultimately force will be used unless the government simply gives up, which is quite possible, and only possible because armed citizens are willing to risk their lives to defend against government tyranny.

And the question of whether the rent was in arrears is the root of the dispute.

[Hermit]

However, I do recall one incident that occurred in the USA recently when a government agency tried to collect rental that was 20 years in arrears and was confronted by lolbertardian snipers.

And what happened? The government backed off. Thus is proven the value of an armed citizenry against government overreach and tyranny.

Trying to recoup 20 years' worth of rental arrears is overreach when the defendant refused to attend resolution in courts of law? I think Bundy left the BLM no choice other than to remove the illegally grazing cattle from the area. It's the armed vigilante snipers who did the overreaching. But yeah, we went through all this before here and here, and I don't care to do yet another lap around the same circuit.