Australia taken hostage by Islamic Terrorists!

[Hermit]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I translate Scumple's cryptic post as meaning "Muslim. Therefore terrorist."

[cronus]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Scumple is saying something like "Muslim. Therefore terrorist."

In this particular case, with some evidence. Whereas there's some who believe violence and mental illness are connected - the data shows that is myth.*

*
http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/news-m ... h-problems

[Hermit]

Whereas there's some who believe violence and mental illness are connected - the data shows that is myth.

There's definitely a kernel of truth in what you say. Sane people have committed unspeakable acts of violence. On the other hand, you haven't. Not yet anyway. At least we are not aware of them if you have.

Still, I don't think you can actually equate Islam with terrorism. If there was such an equation we'd be plagued by 1.6 billion Islamic terrorists.

[cronus]

Whereas there's some who believe violence and mental illness are connected - the data shows that is myth.

There's definitely a kernel of truth in what you say. Sane people have committed unspeakable acts of violence. On the other hand, you haven't. Not yet anyway. At least we are not aware of them if you have.

Still, I don't think you can actually equate Islam with terrorism. If there was such an equation we'd be plagued by 1.6 billion Islamic terrorists.

How do you think such a retarded belief system grew so big? Knocking on doors like the JW's?

[Brian Peacock]

Man, what a horrible ending. There's going to be a new bout of xenophobia and bigotry in the coming weeks/months. There's a twitter hashtag campaign that's been trending - #illridewithyou. People offering to ride on public transport with muslims who are afraid to due to bogans targeting them for abuse.

When we had the London tube bombings many people went to great lengths to show solidarity with our fellow Muslim citizens and to make it clear that a whole community weren't being held responsible for the actions of a few troubled and morally deficient young men. There was a similar reaction when Fusilier Lee Rigby was run down and hacked to death in broad daylight. OK, so some people put pig heads on the steps of a Mosque and the usual fascistic knuckle-draggers tried to provoke a few fights with some low turnout marches, but on the whole people felt that these things were a burden for us all and weren't just something to do with Muslims.

I think it's a shame the guys dead in a way. Often the best way to expose the bankrupt and bankrupting nature of these ideas is to let people spout their self-justifying and despicable bollocks from the dock.

[cronus]

Man, what a horrible ending. There's going to be a new bout of xenophobia and bigotry in the coming weeks/months. There's a twitter hashtag campaign that's been trending - #illridewithyou. People offering to ride on public transport with muslims who are afraid to due to bogans targeting them for abuse.

When we had the London tube bombings many people went to great lengths to show solidarity with our fellow Muslim citizens and to make it clear that a whole community weren't being held responsible for the actions of a few troubled and morally deficient young men. There was a similar reaction when Fusilier Lee Rigby was run down and hacked to death in broad daylight. OK, so some people put pig heads on the steps of a Mosque and the usual fascistic knuckle-draggers tried to provoke a few fights with some low turnout marches, but on the whole people felt that these things were a burden for us all and weren't just something to do with Muslims.

I think it's a shame the guys dead in a way. Often the best way to expose the bankrupt and bankrupting nature of these ideas is to let people spout their self-justifying and despicable bollocks from the dock.

You are re-writing history a bit. Country was sliding on the right before Lee Rigby and now is sliding twice as fast. Everything is on course for a Muslim genocide in the UK given a significant economic downturn. I'm not saying I want this. Maybe free-speech would have saved lives by allowing the Muslim minority to hear what is being said in the pubs and clubs? Rather than the false reality of online social media? It is coming, folks being in denial won't alter the course of the river.

[Hermit]

Whereas there's some who believe violence and mental illness are connected - the data shows that is myth.

There's definitely a kernel of truth in what you say. Sane people have committed unspeakable acts of violence. On the other hand, you haven't. Not yet anyway. At least we are not aware of them if you have.

Still, I don't think you can actually equate Islam with terrorism. If there was such an equation we'd be plagued by 1.6 billion Islamic terrorists.

How do you think such a retarded belief system grew so big? Knocking on doors like the JW's?

Certainly not. And it's not the case with retarded belief systems that "grew so big" and caused the crusades, internecine religious wars, the inquisition, torture and killing of heretics, burning of witches et cetera either.

Let me remind you that although Islamic terrorism today is more prevalent than Christian terrorism, this was not always the case and the vast majority of today's Muslims will have no truck with it anyway.

[JimC]

Whereas there's some who believe violence and mental illness are connected - the data shows that is myth.

There's definitely a kernel of truth in what you say. Sane people have committed unspeakable acts of violence. On the other hand, you haven't. Not yet anyway. At least we are not aware of them if you have.

Still, I don't think you can actually equate Islam with terrorism. If there was such an equation we'd be plagued by 1.6 billion Islamic terrorists.

No, but he and all the other fundamentalists who commit such acts of violence specifically say that they are doing it for Islam. The defence by "moderate muslims" that such people are not true muslims wears a bit thin after a while...

[cronus]

They don't all have to go on the rampage to spread their religion. Whether it be 9/11, Lee Rigby, a London bus, stabbing a cartoonist...or this cafe. It is all about maximising their 'presence' at minimum cost. And the moderates...difficult to see any with this Islam, always trying to make bridges after the event, downplay public indignation as if that very natural reaction to atrocity is somehow wrong.

[Hermit]

...he and all the other fundamentalists who commit such acts of violence specifically say that they are doing it for Islam. The defence by "moderate muslims" that such people are not true muslims wears a bit thin after a while...

Um, Christian terrorists are not representatives of all Christians even though they said they were committing their acts in the name of Christianity, Robespierre's terror campaign was not representative of the French revolutionists even though he claimed that "The Terror" was conducted in the name of the French revolution. Stalin's massive and lethal purges were not representative of Marxist theology even though Stalin said that he was defending Marxism. Shall I go on?

[Hermit]

They don't all have to go on the rampage to spread their religion.

And according to a poll conducted recently in the UK 88% of the local Muslims unequivocally disapprove of terrorism, so it's clearly not a case of "all" going "on the rampage to spread their religion".

[JimC]

...he and all the other fundamentalists who commit such acts of violence specifically say that they are doing it for Islam. The defence by "moderate muslims" that such people are not true muslims wears a bit thin after a while...

Um, Christian terrorists are not representatives of all Christians even though they said they were committing their acts in the name of Christianity, Robespierre's terror campaign was not representative of the French revolutionists even though he claimed that "The Terror" was conducted in the name of the French revolution. Stalin's massive and lethal purges were not representative of Marxist theology even though Stalin said that he was defending Marxism. Shall I go on?

In some ways, they are all excuses. If a religion or an ideology consistently produces violent fanatics, even if the majority are not involved, then that religion or ideology has to cop at least some of the blame...

[cronus]

There is a tendency for some to look at what is on the web and take that as a reality. It is a version of reality and a highly derivative version at that. Take the poll Hermit mentioned. Even with the assumed safety of anonymity how many Muslims are going to state a honest opinion on a questionnaire about terrorism? They've all seen the footage of Camp X-Ray etc. It is worrying that 12% openly ticked the box next to suicide the belt. That is very likely to be a underestimate, however.

[Hermit]

If a religion or an ideology consistently produces violent fanatics, even if the majority are not involved, then that religion or ideology has to cop at least some of the blame...

The problem with that argument is that neither Islam nor Christianity has consistently produced violent fanatics, nor has it produced fanatics at a consistent percentage. If you wish to apportion blame, you'll have to look at something other than their rather unchanging holy texts. Start by asking why interpretations of those texts vary over time, and how the cherry-picking from them keeps changing. You will not find any explanations for either by analysing the religious texts themselves even though they are mountains of shit.

[cronus]

I say ban and burn all hate texts of a religious nature but start with those that are 'activated' then they'll be forced to replace mayhem merrily with either a rational debate or silence. Seems we need to look at this as a historical process. Folks using religion as a short-cut to winning hard to win arguments. Religious books. Flush them all down the toilet but start with the Q'ran.