NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

[Coito ergo sum]

Go Obama! Matter of fact, I'd Roosevelt him and vote him in a few more times. At least until the Right side of Congress realized their job depended on working with him.

Why? Seems he is no less intrusive than the right side of congress, eh? Is this just about whose ox is being gored?

[Sean Hayden]

I'm not bothered by this.

If I start getting new junk mail though, then I'll be upset. Don't sell my info assholes. Unless I get something out of it, like maybe some coupons for my favorite restaurants.

He sold his freedom for coupons!

[Coito ergo sum]

Sure. Everything is Bush's fault including Wall st bailout. Recovery thanks to Obama and the Fed. Go Gubment!

Bush wasn't in the gubment. Got it. :-)

Obama supporters: Obama was elected to change the bad polices of the past. He continued the bad policies of the past, but now most of it is good. Anything that is still bad, we just figure he couldn't possibly do anything different, so it's the other guy's fault because Obama's hands are tied.

Bush - warrantless wiretaps are unconstitutional! Even criminal!

Obama - warrantless wiretaps are a reasonable security measure and if members of the media are targeted, it's for good reason. All we need is to have a conversation about a new balance between security and freedom and it's all good.

Bush - rendition is unconstitutional, illegal and even a war crime!

Obama - rendition is only being done on those for whom there is good reason to do so, and all we need is to have a conversation about a new balance between security and due process concerns and it's all good.

Bush - indefinite detention is unconstitutional, illegal, a violation of the Geneva Conventions and a war crime!

Obama - indefinite detentions are only being done out of necessity and all we need is to have a conversation about a new balance between detentions of enemy combatants and respect for international and domestic law.

Bush - drone strikes create terrorists and are war crimes!

Obama - drone strikes are a targeted, surgical, sensible defense measure that targets only the guilty and keeps us safe. All we need is to have a conversation about a new balance between the need for defense against terrorism and respect for international law.

Bush - there really isn't a war on terrorism, it was made up by his Big Oil Buddies to scare us into supporting endless war for oil!!

Obama - the war on terrorism is real and he is fighting it in a sensible, well-thought out manner.

Bush - Patriot Act is unconstitutional and a violation of our rights!

Obama - ...with a couple obscure tweeks, the Patriot Act is a sensible piece of comprehensive legislation that is vital for our security services to do their job in keeping us safe from terrorism (which didn't exist under Bush, but now does exist under Obama)

Bush - the war on terrorism is unwinnable!

Obama - we won the war on terrorism and Al Qaeta is largely defeated the world over and all that remains are largely ineffectual bands of criminals who can be dealt with with drones and cops.

[Sean Hayden]

-meh, that's just how a lot of people talk about politics Coito, every new "other" guy is the worst at x,y,z since the last "other" guy who was at the time the worst at x,y,z -a lot of noise really, don't you think?

[laklak]

Because they are nutbags. Surely you have some social democratic parties there to vote for?

Cuz they wanna take mah gunz.

[Azathoth]

Again, gubmint spys on shit you do electronically is not news unless you are extremely naive.

[Coito ergo sum]

-meh, that's just how a lot of people talk about politics Coito, every new "other" guy is the worst at x,y,z since the last "other" guy who was at the time the worst at x,y,z -a lot of noise really, don't you think?

Sometimes, but in this case, Obama does so many things that if it occurred under "Bush's Watch" the Obama supporters would be flying off the handle over it. Take the IRS scandal and the AP scandal, and Fast & Furious. All big yawns to Obama supporters. Guantanamo still open? Not unreasonable -- it's tough to close, so let the indefinite detentions (which were criminal under Bush) continue. Rendition? Fine now. War on Terror -- exists now, and it's no longer a tool of Big Oil. Drones -- awesome. Intrusive monitoring of domestic communications, even of the press and their mothers, all good -- no problem. Obama is responsible for none of it.

[Coito ergo sum]

Again, gubmint spys on shit you do electronically is not news unless you are extremely naive.

...so it's good now? It wasn't good before. It's good now? Nothing to object to?

[Azathoth]

It is just what they do. You can whine about it as much as you like and they arent going to stop. The best you can do is control things as much as possible from your end

[Coito ergo sum]

It is just what they do. You can whine about it as much as you like and they arent going to stop. The best you can do is control things as much as possible from your end

Obama supporters didn't mind whining about stuff that are "just what they do" under Bush. Why is it wrong to whine now? Different guy in the White House?

[pErvinalia]

Again, gubmint spys on shit you do electronically is not news unless you are extremely naive.

That doesn't make it right, though.

[pErvinalia]

It is just what they do. You can whine about it as much as you like and they arent going to stop. The best you can do is control things as much as possible from your end

Well, we can make them stop. It's going to take getting up off our figurative arses, though. Unfuckinglikely, but not impossible. After all, government is supposed to be for and by the people.

[Tero]

Coito, about srone strikes.

Bush 0 Bin Laden
Obama 1 Bin Laden

Cuban prison will close before Obama leaves office. Unless the gun nuts get Obama before that.

[Azathoth]

After all, government is supposed to be for and by the people.

[MrJonno]

-meh, that's just how a lot of people talk about politics Coito, every new "other" guy is the worst at x,y,z since the last "other" guy who was at the time the worst at x,y,z -a lot of noise really, don't you think?

Sometimes, but in this case, Obama does so many things that if it occurred under "Bush's Watch" the Obama supporters would be flying off the handle over it. Take the IRS scandal and the AP scandal, and Fast & Furious. All big yawns to Obama supporters. Guantanamo still open? Not unreasonable -- it's tough to close, so let the indefinite detentions (which were criminal under Bush) continue. Rendition? Fine now. War on Terror -- exists now, and it's no longer a tool of Big Oil. Drones -- awesome. Intrusive monitoring of domestic communications, even of the press and their mothers, all good -- no problem. Obama is responsible for none of it.

Don't know why think 'liberty' , 'freedom' , privacy etc are really top on most people's voting priorities (or even which foreigners get blown up), sure they have some importance but its way behind jobs, healthcare, education for most people