Donald Trump has "Game Changing" News for Election!

[Gerald McGrew]

Again, conservatives are full of shit and expecting everyone to believe them (which is quite insulting IMO).

This isn't about grades. We know Obama graduated from Harvard Law magna cum laude, so even if he was a C student at Columbia, so what? It's pretty hard to be a dumb ass and graduate magna cum laude from Harvard Law.

Also, W. Bush didn't release his college transcripts. They were leaked against his wishes.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/

It would be illegal under federal law (the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974) for Occidental, Columbia or Harvard Law School to give any former student’s records to reporters or members of the public without that person’s specific, written permission. Obama hasn’t released them, but neither have other presidential candidates released their college records. George W. Bush’s grades at Yale eventually became public, but only because somebody leaked them to the New Yorker magazine. Bush himself refused to release them, according to a 1999 profile in the Washington Post.

This is about birtherism and race, pure and simple. That's why they're not asking for his transcripts, they're asking for his "college records", which would include his applications (how else would you know if he listed himself as a "foreign student"), and why they're asking for his passport application.

It's racism. The black man with the funny sounding name can't be an American.

[Coito ergo sum]

Again, conservatives are full of shit and expecting everyone to believe them (which is quite insulting IMO).

Some are, some aren't. Like Liberals.

This isn't about grades.

It is, at least in part. It was important to Democrats to get Bush's grades. Why isn't it important anymore?

We know Obama graduated from Harvard Law magna cum laude, so even if he was a C student at Columbia, so what?

So, whatever anyone wants to make out of it. Look, we all know Romney is a rich guy and has made millions a year for many years. What is his tax return going to show that you don't already know? Yet you want to see more tax returns.... I don't blame you for wanting to see them, but all this twisting around to justify nontransparency on the part of Obama is a bit silly.

It's pretty hard to be a dumb ass and graduate magna cum laude from Harvard Law.

If, indeed, that is where he graduated. We don't have his official records, just his word.

Also, W. Bush didn't release his college transcripts. They were leaked against his wishes.

In 1999, more than a year before the election, the transcripts were leaked by the New Yorker. So, there was no reason for him to release them, when they were already released.

And, it isn't even all that relevant what other people did. Obama is giving speeches saying that all candidates need to be as transparent as possible. Withholding transcripts is not being transparent. He's the one who wants transparency, but not when it comes to him - only when it comes to others.

It would be illegal under federal law (the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974) for Occidental, Columbia or Harvard Law School to give any former student’s records to reporters or members of the public without that person’s specific, written permission. Obama hasn’t released them, but neither have other presidential candidates released their college records. George W. Bush’s grades at Yale eventually became public, but only because somebody leaked them to the New Yorker magazine. Bush himself refused to release them, according to a 1999 profile in the Washington Post.

This is about birtherism and race, pure and simple. That's why they're not asking for his transcripts, they're asking for his "college records", which would include his applications (how else would you know if he listed himself as a "foreign student"), and why they're asking for his passport application.

It's racism. The black man with the funny sounding name can't be an American.

If he wants to transparency, be transparent. What does he have to hide, if all they'll show is that he graduated at the top of his class? It isn't birtherism to want to know if he misrepresented himself to get into college. That could effect his law license and be an issue of character. Surely, if whether Romney played practical jokes and teased fellow classmates as 15 year old high school student is relevant, whether Obama, as an adult, committed fraud in his college admissions process is at least as relevant as that.

Racism charges are just deflections. Nobody is treating him differently because of his race. There were Democrat efforts to attack John McCain's eligbility under the Constitution because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Court cases were even filed, just like against Obama. But, since he lost, people stopped caring. Other Presidential candidates have had their eligibility questioned too: Barry Goldwater was alleged to be ineligible because he was born in Arizona before it became a state. Chester Arthur was accused of being ineligible because his father was born and raised in Ireland. Charles Evans Huges, Christopher Schurmann, George Romney (Mitt's father) all had their eligibility for office questioned. The idea that Obama is getting some specially bad treatment here because he's black is utter and complete bullshit.

[Coito ergo sum]

Yeah, I'd like it if he released them a while back. But is anyone going to realistically claim that the guy isn't smart? Honors from Harvard, a Constitutional Law professor... nobody's going to claim that he's secretly a dummy, and anyone who might believe it already hates him anyway. And this seems to be the best that conservatives have got regarding his lack of transparency. Whoop-dee-doo.

I feel the same way about Romey's tax returns from 2009 and 2008. Whoop dee doodoo. But, Obama is the one crowing about how all candidates need to be transparent. So, be transparent.

And I for one didn't care much about Romney being a bully in high school. So, how about those far more recent financial records? If your guy isn't even going to be transparent about that sort of thing WHILE he was running for President, shaddap about college transcripts.

I've already said I think he should have released some more records. What do you mean "how about?" If you're waiting for me to say "he should release them" - I already did. The difference is, you won't ever take a position that is contrary to your boy. You are perfectly happy for him to withhold the records, even while he crows and crows about how everyone needs to be transparent.

If your guy is going to crow about transparency, while withholding records, then shaddap about MORE tax returns. You have a couple of years tax returns, which is nothing unusual and is in accord with tradition on the subject. Your guy just doesn't want to release any of the records. And, you're not even willing to say "I don't think there would be anything of value in the college records, but he should release them to be as transparent as he says everyone should be...." Not willing to go there, Ian?

[Gerald McGrew]

It is, at least in part. It was important to Democrats to get Bush's grades. Why isn't it important anymore?

It's not about grades in any way, shape, or form. Obama himself stated that he was "an ordinary student" as an undergraduate. So unless you're claiming otherwise, his grades are irrelevant.

W. Bush was a different story. His way of speaking and constant stream of gaffes gave the impression that he wasn't very bright. So there was some relevancy to asking "How did he do in college?" Turns out he was a very average student, as suspected.

So, whatever anyone wants to make out of it.

Bullshit. This isn't "whatever anyone wants to make out of it", this is racism pure and simple.

Look, we all know Romney is a rich guy and has made millions a year for many years. What is his tax return going to show that you don't already know? Yet you want to see more tax returns.... I don't blame you for wanting to see them

I'd like to see where he's been making his money. Did he list himself as CEO of Bain during the time he's claimed he wasn't and when they were shipping jobs overseas? Is there any conflicts of interests between his investments and financial strategies and what he's promising to do as President.

but all this twisting around to justify nontransparency on the part of Obama is a bit silly.

Again, what do you want to know? Obama has said he was an ordinary student prior to going to Harvard Law, and he graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law and was president of Harvard Law Review. So obviously the guy's not a dullard.

If, indeed, that is where he graduated. We don't have his official records, just his word.

Oh FFS....now you're questioning whether he actually graduated from Harvard? Just keep jumping that shark over and over again, don't you?

In 1999, more than a year before the election, the transcripts were leaked by the New Yorker. So, there was no reason for him to release them, when they were already released.

As the article stated, W. Bush didn't want them released and they were leaked. Given the context of the situation, it's obvious why that was.

And, it isn't even all that relevant what other people did. Obama is giving speeches saying that all candidates need to be as transparent as possible. Withholding transcripts is not being transparent. He's the one who wants transparency, but not when it comes to him - only when it comes to others.

It's relevancy. Again, what exactly are you looking for in wanting to see his college records and passport application?

It isn't birtherism to want to know if he misrepresented himself to get into college.

Ah, so it's a conspiracy. Nice.

Racism charges are just deflections. Nobody is treating him differently because of his race. There were Democrat efforts to attack John McCain's eligbility under the Constitution because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Court cases were even filed, just like against Obama. But, since he lost, people stopped caring. Other Presidential candidates have had their eligibility questioned too: Barry Goldwater was alleged to be ineligible because he was born in Arizona before it became a state. Chester Arthur was accused of being ineligible because his father was born and raised in Ireland. Charles Evans Huges, Christopher Schurmann, George Romney (Mitt's father) all had their eligibility for office questioned. The idea that Obama is getting some specially bad treatment here because he's black is utter and complete bullshit.

Bullshit. Once again you're pissing on our legs and telling us it's rain.

Obama has done everything necessary, and more, to prove he was born in the US. Yet the high-profile demands and "jokes" by Republicans continue. Romney's spokesman states last night that Colin Powell endorsed Obama because they're both black. But you just keep telling us there's no racism here and expecting us to swallow it. Well, that's a bunch of bullshit and you know it.

[Coito ergo sum]

It is, at least in part. It was important to Democrats to get Bush's grades. Why isn't it important anymore?

It's not about grades in any way, shape, or form. Obama himself stated that he was "an ordinary student" as an undergraduate. So unless you're claiming otherwise, his grades are irrelevant.

How can I claim otherwise, except without evidence? The only thing I can claim is that he hasn't been transparent, and he says that all candidates should be transparent. I agree. Release the records.

W. Bush was a different story. His way of speaking and constant stream of gaffes gave the impression that he wasn't very bright. So there was some relevancy to asking "How did he do in college?" Turns out he was a very average student, as suspected.

That's just a silly rationalization. You claim Bush's grades were relevant because you thought he was an idiot? Well, I think Obama's intelligence and aptitude is grossly overrated. Let's be transparent and take a look at any information we have.

So, whatever anyone wants to make out of it.

Bullshit. This isn't "whatever anyone wants to make out of it", this is racism pure and simple.

Nonsense. He is being held to the same standard every other candidate gets held to.

Look, we all know Romney is a rich guy and has made millions a year for many years. What is his tax return going to show that you don't already know? Yet you want to see more tax returns.... I don't blame you for wanting to see them

I'd like to see where he's been making his money.

A 1040 won't really show that. It's very general. Have you never filed a 1040? The only "where" I have to disclose is my employer. Romney doesn't have an employer -- he used to with Bain Capital, and we know that. His investments are not going to be laid out on the schedules such that you will know much of anything about where they came from.

Did he list himself as CEO of Bain during the time he's claimed he wasn't and when they were shipping jobs overseas? Is there any conflicts of interests between his investments and financial strategies and what he's promising to do as President.

Oh, so an issue of fraud is relevant. Good. Then it's also relevant whether Obama made misrepresentations as a mediocre Occidental student in order to gain access to Columbia, one of the most difficult schools in the country to get into.

I'm with you on the tax returns, though. I already told you guys that. Release them. Transparency. I agree with Obama on that. But, it cuts both ways, doesn't it?

but all this twisting around to justify nontransparency on the part of Obama is a bit silly.

Again, what do you want to know?

Dude - I already explained it several times. I even listed numbered points.

Obama has said he was an ordinary student prior to going to Harvard Law, and he graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law and was president of Harvard Law Review. So obviously the guy's not a dullard.

I don't care what he "said." I want to see the documents.

Romney also said he has made millions and millions of dollars for years, and he has investments in blind trusts, and overseas as well as domestic investments. So, obviously he's a rich millionaire with lots of investments.

If you're concerned about the Bain Capital thing - when he was CEO - that's already been disclosed through SEC records and all that. However, like I said, I'd say "release the tax records." I'm just not willing to give Obama a pass. I want to see what his grades were, and if he was an ordinary student at occidental and Columbia, how the FUCK did he get into Harvard Law? That's one of the top 5 law schools in the country. Probably top 3. Ordinary students don't get into that school. I was an above average student, and I did not get into Harvard, although I wanted to go. I would like to see if this "ordinary" student took an "extraordinary" student's place.

If, indeed, that is where he graduated. We don't have his official records, just his word.

Oh FFS....now you're questioning whether he actually graduated from Harvard? Just keep jumping that shark over and over again, don't you?

I just want to see the records. I hold both candidates to the same standard. You don't. Fair enough.

In 1999, more than a year before the election, the transcripts were leaked by the New Yorker. So, there was no reason for him to release them, when they were already released.

As the article stated, W. Bush didn't want them released and they were leaked. Given the context of the situation, it's obvious why that was.

But Democrats wanted them, and thought they should properly be released. Now they don't, because their guy is in the spotlight. Got it.

And, it isn't even all that relevant what other people did. Obama is giving speeches saying that all candidates need to be as transparent as possible. Withholding transcripts is not being transparent. He's the one who wants transparency, but not when it comes to him - only when it comes to others.

It's relevancy. Again, what exactly are you looking for in wanting to see his college records and passport application?

I'm not talking about a passport application. I already explained the relevancy of the college records. Go look at my responses to Ian.

It isn't birtherism to want to know if he misrepresented himself to get into college.

Ah, so it's a conspiracy. Nice.

No, I didn't allege a conspiracy. A conspiracy is an unlawful agreement between two or more persons to commit an offense. I used the word "misrepresentation." That doesn't require any sort of conspiracy.

Racism charges are just deflections. Nobody is treating him differently because of his race. There were Democrat efforts to attack John McCain's eligbility under the Constitution because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Court cases were even filed, just like against Obama. But, since he lost, people stopped caring. Other Presidential candidates have had their eligibility questioned too: Barry Goldwater was alleged to be ineligible because he was born in Arizona before it became a state. Chester Arthur was accused of being ineligible because his father was born and raised in Ireland. Charles Evans Huges, Christopher Schurmann, George Romney (Mitt's father) all had their eligibility for office questioned. The idea that Obama is getting some specially bad treatment here because he's black is utter and complete bullshit.

Bullshit. Once again you're pissing on our legs and telling us it's rain.

Since many other candidates, including at least one President who held office, had their eligibility questioned, I'm most certainly correct. Obama is getting the same treatment. Now, you can keep making your bullshit allegations without evidence, which is what you like to do. But, just saying something doesn't make it true. On what basis do you claim it's racism? You certainly can't say it's because just the black guy gets his eligibility questioned. I already showed you in no uncertain terms that it happens to white guys a lot.

Obama has done everything necessary, and more, to prove he was born in the US.

I'm not asking him to prove that. The school records are relevant to other things. I think the guy was born in Hawaii, based on the birth certificate, and more importantly based on the contemporaneous birth reports and information provided by the hospital in which he was born. I'm not in the least of the opinion that he was born outside the US.

Yet the high-profile demands and "jokes" by Republicans continue. Romney's spokesman states last night that Colin Powell endorsed Obama because they're both black. But you just keep telling us there's no racism here and expecting us to swallow it. Well, that's a bunch of bullshit and you know it.

There isn't anything racist about saying a black person supports Obama because he's black. 90+% of black people support Obama. You think that's because they've all done considered analyses of Obama's views and they just happen to be that far and away nearly unanimous? Unanimity of political philosophy? Cut me a break!

Fuck - I don't even think it's a bad thing for someone to vote for Obama because he's black. If not a single white guy had been President for 225 years -- 43 straight BASP or BASC male Presidents? Fuck yeah I'd vote for the white guy. And, if only women had been elected President for 225 years? I'd have a strong push, were I a woman, to want to vote for the woman. There isn't anything at all wrong with that, and it is completely natural.

I was glad to see the color barrier broken in our Presidential elections. It will be nice when the sex barrier is broken too. I would think Hillary a very competent President, and I would think many women would want to see a woman, finally, in the White House.

That doesn't make me a racist or a sexist -- it makes me someone who acknowledges human fucking nature. Grow the fuck up.

[Thinking Aloud]

So ... um ... did the game change, or are we still playing Top Trumps?

[Kristie]

So ... um ... did the game change, or are we still playing Top Trumps?

It didn't change a damn thing.

[Ian]

Some people are having a hard time understanding that Trump is a buffoon who ought to be laughed at.

[klr]

Some people are having a hard time understanding that Trump is a buffoon who ought to be laughed at.

Trump himself obviously being at the very top of that list.

[Thinking Aloud]

Some people are having a hard time understanding that Trump is a bufoon who ought to be laughed at.

Alas, in this part of the world, his money was too tempting for some.

[Bella Fortuna]

Some people are having a hard time understanding that Trump is a bufoon who ought to be laughed at.

He deserves nothing but contempt and to be dismissed like the dreck that he is.

And maybe a comb.

[Pensioner]

Hell, for $1,000,000 The Donald can dip his balls in my mouth.

Don't you mean one $1?

[Gerald McGrew]

How can I claim otherwise, except without evidence?

You have evidence. He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law and was president of Harvard Law Review. He has said he was an "ordinary student" as an undergraduate. No one from any university has disputed any of that, so what is your basis for thinking otherwise?

The only thing I can claim is that he hasn't been transparent, and he says that all candidates should be transparent. I agree. Release the records.

More stupidity. You honestly think a promise of a "transparent administration" = "I'll give everyone access to all my personal records throughout my life"? It wasn't in reference to how his administration would function? Sheesh.

You claim Bush's grades were relevant because you thought he was an idiot?

No, not an idiot, just not particularly exceptional. His grades showed that.

Well, I think Obama's intelligence and aptitude is grossly overrated.

And your basis for thinking that is.....? His excellent oratory skills? His graduating magna cum laude from Harvard Law? His being president of Harvard Law review? His time as a constitutional professor(ish)?

Nonsense. He is being held to the same standard every other candidate gets held to.

Another stupid argument directly contradicted by reality. No other president has experienced 4 years of this level of scrutiny and suspicion into whether he was actually born in this country. Funny how it just happens to be the first black POTUS.

A 1040 won't really show that. It's very general. Have you never filed a 1040? The only "where" I have to disclose is my employer. Romney doesn't have an employer -- he used to with Bain Capital, and we know that. His investments are not going to be laid out on the schedules such that you will know much of anything about where they came from.

Since we both agree that Romney should release more of his tax records, there's no need to discuss this further.

Oh, so an issue of fraud is relevant. Good. Then it's also relevant whether Obama made misrepresentations as a mediocre Occidental student in order to gain access to Columbia, one of the most difficult schools in the country to get into.

Except you have absolutely no evidence of anything of the sort. You're just making something up out of thin air and giving it the default status of being true. With Romney's time at Bain however, other records list him as CEO during years when he said he wasn't working for them. Thus, there is an actual substantive basis for looking deeper.

I don't care what he "said." I want to see the documents.

What substantive basis do you have for your theories?

If you're concerned about the Bain Capital thing - when he was CEO - that's already been disclosed through SEC records and all that.

Exactly, and those records contradict what Romney has claimed. Which is true?

I want to see what his grades were, and if he was an ordinary student at occidental and Columbia, how the FUCK did he get into Harvard Law? That's one of the top 5 law schools in the country. Probably top 3. Ordinary students don't get into that school. I was an above average student, and I did not get into Harvard, although I wanted to go. I would like to see if this "ordinary" student took an "extraordinary" student's place.

What does that matter? Let's say Obama was given some sort of preferential treatment which allowed him to get into Harvard Law. And.....? We know what he did afterwards, i.e. graduating magna cum laude and serving as President of Harvard Law Review, so obviously even if he was some sort of Affirmative Action case, he made the most of it and eventually came to be President of the United States.

So if that's what happened, I'd say it's a stellar example of what AA can do.

I just want to see the records. I hold both candidates to the same standard. You don't. Fair enough.

Now you're lying again. I'm not asking to see Romney's college records or his passport application.

But Democrats wanted them, and thought they should properly be released. Now they don't, because their guy is in the spotlight. Got it.

I haven't seen the same people who demanded Bush's college transcripts now saying Obama shouldn't be asked to release his. Do you have an example?

No, I didn't allege a conspiracy. A conspiracy is an unlawful agreement between two or more persons to commit an offense. I used the word "misrepresentation." That doesn't require any sort of conspiracy.

So you're thinking Harvard Law just blindly accepted someone listing themselves as a foreign student, and now that that same person is the frickin' President of the US, they're either intentionally keeping that quiet, or they never thought to go back and check?

If he misrepresented himself that significantly on his application, that's a basis for the university rescinding his degree and status. But if they didn't, they must be in on the whole thing.

Since many other candidates, including at least one President who held office, had their eligibility questioned, I'm most certainly correct. Obama is getting the same treatment.

Logical fallacy of false equivalency.

Show me another candidate who became POTUS who continues to have his citizenship questioned despite having released a COLB, long-form birth certificate, and newspaper announcements.

On what basis do you claim it's racism? You certainly can't say it's because just the black guy gets his eligibility questioned. I already showed you in no uncertain terms that it happens to white guys a lot.

Noooooo....it's all just a coincidence that the first black POTUS is constantly suspected of being from Africa despite having released a COLB, long-form birth certificate, and newspaper announcements, all unequivocally showing he was born in the US. It's just a coincidence that the term "birthers" arose at this time and that the Republican candidate's campaign is saying that the reason other black political figures endorse him is because they're both black.

God damn I hate it when conservatives lie like this and act all exasperated when no one buys their bullshit.

There isn't anything racist about saying a black person supports Obama because he's black.

Ok....I think we're done here. Fuuuuuuuuck.......

[Coito ergo sum]

So ... um ... did the game change, or are we still playing Top Trumps?

It didn't change a damn thing.

As I noted in the OP -- big dud.

[Coito ergo sum]

How can I claim otherwise, except without evidence?

You have evidence. He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law and was president of Harvard Law Review. He has said he was an "ordinary student" as an undergraduate. No one from any university has disputed any of that, so what is your basis for thinking otherwise?

Nobody from the universities are allowed to dispute it or they would be violating FERPA, and I don't care if he says he was an "ordinary student," as that doesn't tell anyone anything. I don't care what he "says" he did in college. I want him to live up to his stated ideal of transparency.

I graduated magna cum laude too, but if I was running for President, I'm sure you'd want more than my word on it.

The only thing I can claim is that he hasn't been transparent, and he says that all candidates should be transparent. I agree. Release the records.

More stupidity. You honestly think a promise of a "transparent administration" = "I'll give everyone access to all my personal records throughout my life"? It wasn't in reference to how his administration would function? Sheesh.

He demands it of others. And, the documents are relevant, which is why they are routinely released by candidates, like tax returns.

You've not given one good reason, for example, why more of Mitt's tax returns are needed. Nothing you said you needed from them would actually be revealed by the returns being released. You already know the guy makes millions of dollars per year.

You claim Bush's grades were relevant because you thought he was an idiot?

No, not an idiot, just not particularly exceptional. His grades showed that.

And, I don't think Obama is particularly exception, and his grades will probably show that. It doesn't matter that Obama says he was "ordinary" -- Bush never claimed to be a smart guy to begin with, yet you think his grades were relevant. For the same reason you're saying Bush's were relevant, Obama's are just as relevant.

And, why not release them? What is he worried about?

Well, I think Obama's intelligence and aptitude is grossly overrated.

And your basis for thinking that is.....? His excellent oratory skills? His graduating magna cum laude from Harvard Law? His being president of Harvard Law review? His time as a constitutional professor(ish)?

His gaffes, anytime he is off teleprompter. His poor first debate performance, among other things.

But, I don't need any basis -- his education and intelligence are at issue, just as any President's education and intelligence is at issue. It doesn't matter that you trust his statements or that you think he's smart. He doesn't sound all that smart to me -- just because you get sucked in by his "oratory" doesn't mean he's smart.

You had no more basis for thinking Bush was dumb -- you just thought he sounded dumb. That doesn't mean educational records are relevant for Bush but not for Obama.

Nonsense. He is being held to the same standard every other candidate gets held to.

Another stupid argument directly contradicted by reality. No other president has experienced 4 years of this level of scrutiny and suspicion into whether he was actually born in this country. Funny how it just happens to be the first black POTUS.

That's just plain nonsense. What universe are you living in? No President in my memory -- since the mid-1970s has received greater protection FROM scrutiny than Obama. He is overwhelmingly adored by the "thrill legged" press, and his devotees like you won't hold him accountable for a single thing. You're too afraid that if you disagree on any one issue, it casts him in doubt, so no matter what he does, you're all good with it.

Please - tell me where Obama has gotten it bad. It's not the birth/eligibility thing -- I listed all sorts of white guys that got the same treatment (only in a pre-internet age). So, what is it? The way that he got no press inquiry into Bengazi? The way he can go 3 years without a budget, and the press doesn't even ask him about it? The way he is not blamed for anything that happens under his presidency, even nearly 4 years later? The way the press let him off the hook on claims of executive privilege? The way he can issue hundreds of executive orders and appoint more "czars" than anyone else and no inquiries are made?

Where is this "scrutiny" you speak of?

A 1040 won't really show that. It's very general. Have you never filed a 1040? The only "where" I have to disclose is my employer. Romney doesn't have an employer -- he used to with Bain Capital, and we know that. His investments are not going to be laid out on the schedules such that you will know much of anything about where they came from.

Since we both agree that Romney should release more of his tax records, there's no need to discuss this further.

No, there is. We agree that Romney should release more records, but we don't agree that it's worth anything. You made stupid allegations about what you think would be found out by a release of the records -- that stuff would NOT be revealed by the records. You're the one who claims that records ought only be released if they will reveal something relevant to the election, right? So, stand by your own rule -- don't dodge -- what the fuck will you find out from the tax returns that you don't already know?

I am for releasing more records because there is no reason NOT to release them. Same for the educational records. I'm consistent. You're a partisan hack, and unapologetic about it. Be consistent, man. Tell me a good reason why his tax returns that have already been released are not enough. What will you learn from the 2009 return that you don't already know? That he's rich? That he has lots of capital gains?

Oh, so an issue of fraud is relevant. Good. Then it's also relevant whether Obama made misrepresentations as a mediocre Occidental student in order to gain access to Columbia, one of the most difficult schools in the country to get into.

Except you have absolutely no evidence of anything of the sort.

LOL - you said I DO have evidence of that! You said Obama said he was an "ordinary" student. "Ordinary" Occidental college students don't get into Columbia University. Do you know that Columbia is one of the top schools in the nation?

You're just making something up out of thin air and giving it the default status of being true. With Romney's time at Bain however, other records list him as CEO during years when he said he wasn't working for them. Thus, there is an actual substantive basis for looking deeper.

I don't even care about what the other records say. I say he should release the tax returns. But, your reason would only justify looking at the returns from the year after he says he left Bain.

In any case -- I am not "just making it up" relative to Obama. He said, as you said, he was just an ordinary student. So, how did he get into Columbia?

I don't care what he "said." I want to see the documents.

What substantive basis do you have for your theories?

I told you. And, a transparent candidate would release the records, because obviously,they will all make sense when viewed. Won't they?

If you're concerned about the Bain Capital thing - when he was CEO - that's already been disclosed through SEC records and all that.

Exactly, and those records contradict what Romney has claimed. Which is true?

They don't contradict him.http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/romney ... onclusion/ (or, don't you agree with Fact Check.org when they substantiate that the Obama campaign is full of shit? - of course you don't -- because no matter what, you know the truth...) But, what is the relevance of whether he was at Bain or not at Bain? Who cares? What does that have to do with being President? If it's the fraud issue, then I again raise that issue as a reason to see Obama's educational rescords.

I want to see what his grades were, and if he was an ordinary student at occidental and Columbia, how the FUCK did he get into Harvard Law? That's one of the top 5 law schools in the country. Probably top 3. Ordinary students don't get into that school. I was an above average student, and I did not get into Harvard, although I wanted to go. I would like to see if this "ordinary" student took an "extraordinary" student's place.

What does that matter? Let's say Obama was given some sort of preferential treatment which allowed him to get into Harvard Law. And.....? We know what he did afterwards, i.e. graduating magna cum laude and serving as President of Harvard Law Review, so obviously even if he was some sort of Affirmative Action case, he made the most of it and eventually came to be President of the United States.

Because it's relevant HOW he got that preferential treatment. On what basis?

You may not care - but, I do. And, others do. And, it's not just your opinion that counts. I'm on the other side of it when it comes to tax returns -- I think they will show nothing we don't already know --- but, since you and others seem to care about it, and there is no good reason not to disclose some more tax returns, I side with the public's right to know.

you side with the right to know, when it comes to information about romney, but you side with secrecy and nontransparency when it comes to Obama.

So if that's what happened, I'd say it's a stellar example of what AA can do.

You have no idea if it was Affirmative Action or not. Neither do I. But, the records would show that. Whether it is "stellar" or otherwise, is a value judgment. And, you have to learn that your value judgments aren't facts. The records are the facts. How voters evaluate them is their business.

I just want to see the records. I hold both candidates to the same standard. You don't. Fair enough.

Now you're lying again. I'm not asking to see Romney's college records or his passport application.

I'm not asking for his passport application and shove your accusations of lying up your ass you piece of shit.

I'm not lying. You want tax records that won't show what you say you want them for, and you offer no other reason for needing them. You then demand that I have a reason acceptable to you to want to see Obama's educational records. That's where you have a double standard. You just want the records from Romney, without being able to articulate anything real that you may need them for. The Bain capital thing is bullshit, as FAct Check already shows.

HOwever, even though your reasons for wanting to see them are bullshit -- I say just release them because there is no good reason not to. Same for the educational records.

But Democrats wanted them, and thought they should properly be released. Now they don't, because their guy is in the spotlight. Got it.

I haven't seen the same people who demanded Bush's college transcripts now saying Obama shouldn't be asked to release his. Do you have an example?

Not relevant. I haven't seen the same people who object to Romney producing his tax returns ever demanded Obama release his. Do you have an example?

No, I didn't allege a conspiracy. A conspiracy is an unlawful agreement between two or more persons to commit an offense. I used the word "misrepresentation." That doesn't require any sort of conspiracy.

So you're thinking Harvard Law just blindly accepted someone listing themselves as a foreign student, and now that that same person is the frickin' President of the US, they're either intentionally keeping that quiet, or they never thought to go back and check?

I don't know -- I just don't know how an "ordinary student" at a crummy little college gets into Columbia, and then -- as you stated, still an "ordinary student" at Columbia - he gets into Harvard. I'd like to know how.

And, gee - it would be the first time ever that a President of the US kept anything quiet? LOL -- that Kool-Aid you drink must taste good.

If he misrepresented himself that significantly on his application, that's a basis for the university rescinding his degree and status. But if they didn't, they must be in on the whole thing.

False choice. Nobody taking any action doesn't mean anyone is "in on" anything. Nobody will review his degree and status until a complaint is lodged through proper channels. Nobody in the university is allowed to just go in there and randomly review his file.

Since many other candidates, including at least one President who held office, had their eligibility questioned, I'm most certainly correct. Obama is getting the same treatment.

Logical fallacy of false equivalency.

It isn't at all. Do you even know what you're talking about? Obviously not.

It's not "false equivalency." It's the entire basis of the concept of "discrimination." If you think he's being questioned as to eligibility because he is black, you have to show evidence for that. He hasn't. If we look at past Presidential candidates, we see white guys often getting lambasted over eligibility issues. This is not unusual.

What evidence do you have that a similarly situated white guy would not get the same treatment?

Show me another candidate who became POTUS who continues to have his citizenship questioned despite having released a COLB, long-form birth certificate, and newspaper announcements.

Chester A. Arthur. He was plagued by allegations of ineligibility his whole term.

John McCain -- still questioned about eligibility to be President, but because he's not going to run again, it's moot.

God damn I hate it when conservatives lie like this and act all exasperated when no one buys their bullshit.

Fuck you. Your go to allegation is "lie." I haven't lied at all -- and I'm sick of your bullshit. Go whack off to Obama again.

There isn't anything racist about saying a black person supports Obama because he's black.

Ok....I think we're done here. Fuuuuuuuuck.......

Did you read my explanation? Obviously, there is going to be some racial identity factoring in to black decision making here. It's only natural. If there were no white presidents for 225 years, I'd sure as fuck want there to be one, and I would be very likely to overlook things I wouldn't otherwise overlook. The mere breaking of the color, and soon gender, barriers is important.

But, we are done here. I've wasted too much time arguing with someone as intellectually challenged and dishonest as you.