George Galloway

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Beatsong
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Re: George Galloway

Post by Beatsong » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:54 pm

The Mad Hatter wrote:You can not blame the present administration for the actions of the previous.
That may have some merit is the present administration clearly and actively distanced themselves from those actions. Eg by stating unequivocably that the policy of supporting Saddam had been a mistake, and they were seeking to rectify that mistake. But they didn't do that, they simply pretended that it never happened.

The volte-face on Saddam is perfectly simple. At one point he was politically advantageous to the American government, at another point he was disadvantageous. I'm not so naive as to not understand that that's what a lot of politics consists of - I'm simply calling a spade a spade. It's the Bush administration, not me, who insisted on the ludicrous fiction that there was some kind of "moral" dimension to it.

Because without that, they would hardly have been able to convince people that invading a foreign country who had done nothing to them, and had no WMDs that posed any kind of international threat - and killing hundreds of thousands in the process - was "justified", would they?
Secondly, are you as equally angry with the Dutch for taking part in the war?
I wasn't even aware that they had. But yes, since you say so. I was certainly equally angry with Britain as America.

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Re: George Galloway

Post by Trolldor » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:58 pm

So you oppose the removal of a maniacal, homocidal tyrant on what grounds?
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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Re: George Galloway

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:01 pm

There comes a point sometimes, where a politician moves from opposing the ideologies of their political opponents, to opposing those opponents directly - when this happens, they blinker themselves with the view that any opponents of those people must be right. I think that George Galloway crossed that line a long time ago.

When he praises Saddam Hussein publicly, he loses all credibility in my eyes - which is a shame, because I agree with a lot of what he has to say. Saddam was a brutal, dictatorial, murderer - a man that would use any means within his remit to maintain absolute power over his country - a grade A, award-winning, fascist cunt. That George cannot see that due to his blinding hatred for Blair and Bush limits his political relevance to that of a ranting, soapbox nutter.
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Re: George Galloway

Post by sandinista » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:04 pm

some great posts Beatsong! :td:

...as for the question regarding holding one admin responsible for anothers decisions. In americas case, it IS justified as every admin since the end of ww2 has been one and the same. Just cause the presidential figure head changes doesn't mean the policy decisions and actions of those in power (the corporate elite) have.

Beatsong
Hitchens' basic position by the end of that debate was shown up as being that the American troops in Iraq are entitled to be there, by some strange principle of unilateral declaration of the ownership of foreign countries that he never elucidated. And that the Iraqis who have fought against them for control of their OWN country are somehow therefore "terrorists". Galloway exposed this crock of shit as the hypocritical sham that it is.
dead on.
Last edited by sandinista on Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: George Galloway

Post by Trolldor » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:05 pm

Why do you support the now defunct regime of Suddam?
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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Re: George Galloway

Post by Eriku » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:06 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:There comes a point sometimes, where a politician moves from opposing the ideologies of their political opponents, to opposing those opponents directly - when this happens, they blinker themselves with the view that any opponents of those people must be right. I think that George Galloway crossed that line a long time ago.

When he praises Saddam Hussein publicly, he loses all credibility in my eyes - which is a shame, because I agree with a lot of what he has to say. Saddam was a brutal, dictatorial, murderer - a man that would use any means within his remit to maintain absolute power over his country - a grade A, award-winning, fascist cunt. That George cannot see that due to his blinding hatred for Blair and Bush limits his political relevance to that of a ranting, soapbox nutter.
I do agree, but at the same time you'll not find people having any qualms at all with considering the President of the United States (pick a president, any president) a stand-up guy, regardless of how bloody their hands are.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but Galloway's gone no further than most of the world goes every day.

The corporate elites mentioned by sandinista, have really pulled the wool over the world's eyes on matters like these.

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Re: George Galloway

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:06 pm

sandinista wrote:some great posts Beatsong! :td:

...as for the question regarding holding one admin responsible for anothers decisions. In americas case, it IS justified as every admin since the end of ww2 has been one and the same. Just cause the presidential figure head changes doesn't mean the policy decisions and actions of those in power (the corporate elite) have.
I would like to point out that I am not responsible for anything that DP does - especially when it comes to his reactions towards punning! :nono:
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Re: George Galloway

Post by sandinista » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:07 pm

The Mad Hatter
Why do you support the now defunct regime of Suddam?
who me? couldn't be? You're not giving me the whole "if you're not with us you're with the terrorists" claptrap are you? I don't support the US invasion of Iraq OR Saddam.
Last edited by sandinista on Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: George Galloway

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:08 pm

Eriku wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:There comes a point sometimes, where a politician moves from opposing the ideologies of their political opponents, to opposing those opponents directly - when this happens, they blinker themselves with the view that any opponents of those people must be right. I think that George Galloway crossed that line a long time ago.

When he praises Saddam Hussein publicly, he loses all credibility in my eyes - which is a shame, because I agree with a lot of what he has to say. Saddam was a brutal, dictatorial, murderer - a man that would use any means within his remit to maintain absolute power over his country - a grade A, award-winning, fascist cunt. That George cannot see that due to his blinding hatred for Blair and Bush limits his political relevance to that of a ranting, soapbox nutter.
I do agree, but at the same time you'll not find people having any qualms at all with considering the President of the United States (pick a president, any president) a stand-up guy, regardless of how bloody their hands are.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but Galloway's gone no further than most of the world goes every day.

The corporate elites mentioned by sandinista, have really pulled the wool over the world's eyes on matters like these.
I would disagree. I opposed the war in Iraq. I thought Bush was a cunt and I also thought that Saddam was a cunt. Galloway thought Bush was a cunt and therefore, Saddam had to be 'the good guy' - FAIL!
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing :nono:
Paco
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Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
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Re: George Galloway

Post by Eriku » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:11 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Eriku wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:There comes a point sometimes, where a politician moves from opposing the ideologies of their political opponents, to opposing those opponents directly - when this happens, they blinker themselves with the view that any opponents of those people must be right. I think that George Galloway crossed that line a long time ago.

When he praises Saddam Hussein publicly, he loses all credibility in my eyes - which is a shame, because I agree with a lot of what he has to say. Saddam was a brutal, dictatorial, murderer - a man that would use any means within his remit to maintain absolute power over his country - a grade A, award-winning, fascist cunt. That George cannot see that due to his blinding hatred for Blair and Bush limits his political relevance to that of a ranting, soapbox nutter.
I do agree, but at the same time you'll not find people having any qualms at all with considering the President of the United States (pick a president, any president) a stand-up guy, regardless of how bloody their hands are.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but Galloway's gone no further than most of the world goes every day.

The corporate elites mentioned by sandinista, have really pulled the wool over the world's eyes on matters like these.
I would disagree. I opposed the war in Iraq. I thought Bush was a cunt and I also thought that Saddam was a cunt. Galloway thought Bush was a cunt and therefore, Saddam had to be 'the good guy' - FAIL!
I'd be surprised if anybody didn't disagree with that general notion on here, this forum being stuffed with rational people and all... but surely you see my point about the populace in general?

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Re: George Galloway

Post by Trolldor » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:12 pm

Oh come on sandy, you're saying you'd rather Suddam stayed in power than the US finally do what they should have done in 1994. What is that if not supporting Suddam?
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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Re: George Galloway

Post by sandinista » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:29 pm

and what gives the US the right to decide who stays or doesn't stay in power?
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.

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Re: George Galloway

Post by Pappa » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:32 pm

sandinista wrote:and what gives the US the right to decide who stays or doesn't stay in power?
powah gives them the right.
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Re: George Galloway

Post by sandinista » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:37 pm

Is my sarcasm meter going off?
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Re: George Galloway

Post by Eriku » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:39 pm

sandinista wrote:Is my sarcasm meter going off?
Are you kidding?! This baby is registering through the roof, bwah-hey!

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