Where's Red Celt when you want a laugh!?

[Hermit]

Just veto the membership of those two organisations for any breakaway state, and you wouldn't see much appetite for splitting.

Ah, if Germany had heeded your advice Bavaria would still be part of Germany today!

Well, Scotland is part of the UK today. And the Basque country is part of Spain and France today.
It's tomorrow that's the problem, not today.

Yes. That's why I am worried that the Bavarians might secede tomorrow. It's because Germany is a member of the EU, and as everybody knows, the traditional secessionist sentiment among Bavarians has been burgeoning ever since they realised that they too can become a member of the EU after independence. Bavarians know that they won't need Germany any more and they have a political party dedicated to secession and the establishment of the Bavarian nation. It was founded in 1946 and in the first state elections it contested (1950) not even quite 18% of the electorate voted for it. Then Germany became a member of the EU, and guess what? Yes, as expected, the party's appeal has grown to the extent that by the time of the latest elections (2013) it attracted 2.4% of the votes. It's only the existence of the EU that can explain the difference.

[JimC]

Hermit - founding member of Sarcasm-R-Us...

[mistermack]

Just veto the membership of those two organisations for any breakaway state, and you wouldn't see much appetite for splitting.

Ah, if Germany had heeded your advice Bavaria would still be part of Germany today!

Well, Scotland is part of the UK today. And the Basque country is part of Spain and France today.
It's tomorrow that's the problem, not today.

Yes. That's why I am worried that the Bavarians might secede tomorrow. It's because Germany is a member of the EU, and as everybody knows, the traditional secessionist sentiment among Bavarians has been burgeoning ever since they realised that they too can become a member of the EU after independence. Bavarians know that they won't need Germany any more and they have a political party dedicated to secession and the establishment of the Bavarian nation. It was founded in 1946 and in the first state elections it contested (1950) not even quite 18% of the electorate voted for it. Then Germany became a member of the EU, and guess what? Yes, as expected, the party's appeal has grown to the extent that by the time of the latest elections (2013) it attracted 2.4% of the votes. It's only the existence of the EU that can explain the difference.

Logic most stupid.
Just because something happens a certain way in one place, it must be the same everywhere.
If it happens in Bavaria, it must happen the same way in Scotland. Ummm, no. Logic fail.

If Scotland stood no chance of being a member of the EU after splitting, they wouldn't be neck and neck in the polls. In my opinion. And in the opinion of Alex Salmond and everybody else involved.
That's why they made so much effort to convince the voters that, a, yes camp) membership would be automatic and b, no camp) membership would be difficult and complicated.

But someone should tell them about Bavaria. They are obviously idiots.

[klr]

Just veto the membership of those two organisations for any breakaway state, and you wouldn't see much appetite for splitting.

Ah, if Germany had heeded your advice Bavaria would still be part of Germany today!

Well, Scotland is part of the UK today. And the Basque country is part of Spain and France today.
It's tomorrow that's the problem, not today.

Yes. That's why I am worried that the Bavarians might secede tomorrow. It's because Germany is a member of the EU, and as everybody knows, the traditional secessionist sentiment among Bavarians has been burgeoning ever since they realised that they too can become a member of the EU after independence. Bavarians know that they won't need Germany any more and they have a political party dedicated to secession and the establishment of the Bavarian nation. It was founded in 1946 and in the first state elections it contested (1950) not even quite 18% of the electorate voted for it. Then Germany became a member of the EU, and guess what? Yes, as expected, the party's appeal has grown to the extent that by the time of the latest elections (2013) it attracted 2.4% of the votes. It's only the existence of the EU that can explain the difference.

Logic most stupid.
Just because something happens a certain way in one place, it must be the same everywhere.
If it happens in Bavaria, it must happen the same way in Scotland. Ummm, no. Logic fail.

If Scotland stood no chance of being a member of the EU after splitting, they wouldn't be neck and neck in the polls. In my opinion. And in the opinion of Alex Salmond and everybody else involved.
That's why they made so much effort to convince the voters that, a, yes camp) membership would be automatic and b, no camp) membership would be difficult and complicated.

But someone should tell them about Bavaria. They are obviously idiots.

This suggests that the voters are logical, very well-informed and have the competence right down to the individual level to correctly evaluate the issue.

It would be very unusual if this were so. This is a general observation, and is certainly not limited to the Scottish electorate. One factor working against them is that the Scots don't have much experience dealing direct with the EU. They have historically been preoccupied with their relationship with the rest of the UK, especially England. Irish voters have much more experience with EU matters, not only because Ireland interacts direct with the EU, but also because we've a lot of referendums about EU issues.

[mistermack]

If there were no chance of Scotland being part of the EU, there wouldn't even have been a vote.
Or even a movement for a vote.
Scots know they can move south any time jobs are scarce in Scotland. Businesses know they can move staff from Scotland to England or Wales without visa problems.
Scotch Whiskey can be sold in England and the EU without import duties. Same as all the other goods made in Scotland.
Without EU membership, independence would be economic suicide.
They all know that up there. It's just Hermit who doesn't get it.

[klr]

If there were no chance of Scotland being part of the EU, there wouldn't even have been a vote.
Or even a movement for a vote.
Scots know they can move south any time jobs are scarce in Scotland. Businesses know they can move staff from Scotland to England or Wales without visa problems.
Scotch Whiskey can be sold in England and the EU without import duties. Same as all the other goods made in Scotland.
Without EU membership, independence would be economic suicide.
They all know that up there. It's just Hermit who doesn't get it.

Er, that's because Scotland is currently in the EU, by virtue of it being part of an EU member state.

[Hermit]

The SNP promises lower borrowing rates, 3% annual increases in public spending and no changes to the overall level of taxation. I'd love to see the maths behind that scheme. And yes, a sharp turn to the right is bound to follow not long after independence if the yes vote wins.

[Hermit]

Scots know they can move south any time jobs are scarce in Scotland. Businesses know they can move staff from Scotland to England or Wales without visa problems.

As if they can't do that now.

[klr]

Christ, will we ever hear the end of this? It's everywhere now. Maybe I should stop watching the news.

[mistermack]

Scots know they can move south any time jobs are scarce in Scotland. Businesses know they can move staff from Scotland to England or Wales without visa problems.

As if they can't do that now.

That's the point.
If they faced the prospect of being out of the EU, after splitting from the UK, they would not have those kinds of options.
If, as I suggested previously, splinter states were vetoed from joining the EU and NATO, they would have to go it alone. After all, it's ''independence'' that they crave, so they should have no complaints.

And that's why I think such vetoes would knock the ''independence'' movements on the head.

[John_fi_Skye]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYIECCQux1g

[klr]

I had to endure h a commercial for Netflix with Ricky Gervais before I could watch that.

[John_fi_Skye]

I had to endure h a commercial for Netflix with Ricky Gervais before I could watch that.

Sorry. Above all, I'm sorry that we live in a capitalist world. Bought and sold again.

But the words, written more than 200 years ago, could have been written to apply to the BBC, couldn't they? Or any of the three fucking lying Westminster parties. Fucking bastards.

[klr]

I had to endure h a commercial for Netflix with Ricky Gervais before I could watch that.

Sorry. Above all, I'm sorry that we live in a capitalist world. Bought and sold again.

But the words, written more than 200 years ago, could have been written to apply to the BBC, couldn't they? Or any of the three fucking lying Westminster parties. Fucking bastards.

Don't worry - the choice of ad is random, or something close to it. I just thought it was a tad ironic in the circumstances.

[Hermit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYIECCQux1g

He makes it sound as if it's a bad thing.

Bring back the clans, their perennial, murderous feuds and their cruel, relentless subjection of their servile underlings, I say. Oh, those were the good old days. I shake my head when I see what has become of you lot.