Russian Collusion with the Democrats

[Forty Two]

So you're withholding judgement at this time - you have no opinion on the matter?

No, I've been answering your question. Some I've suggested I think are true. Like I also think that Simpson is probably telling the truth when he swore he had dinner with the evil Russian lawyer who came to meet with Trump Jr and hand over dirt on Cllinton which she never actually had or handed over.... I think that's probably true. Don't you?

As for the notion that Hillary Clinton "colluded" with the Russians, well, I have to withold judgment at this time, because the article doesn't really provide evidence of that, and "collusion" is a stupid term that is designed to create news articles, while not actually alleging that anyone did anything wrong. So, did she "collude" with Russians - sure - in the state department she met with Russians and they colluded on international relations - but, that's what every government does. Nothing inherently wrong with that.

Did she knowingly help slide through the Uranium One deal - I certainly need more information on that.

But, on specific allegations in the article, a lot of it is backed up by evidence referred to in the article.

Understand?

[Brian Peacock]

I guess you're only interested in other people's views on this. I'd say what I've said in the other Russian thread - I think US politics has been played, and to some extent pwnd by the Kremlin, and more or less knowingly and willingly in some cases.

[rainbow]

Campbell also obtained written evidence that Putin wanted to buy Uranium One as part of a strategy to obtain monopolistic domination of the global uranium markets, including leverage over the U.S.

Drivel. Uranium One is a minor player in world uranium production. For the last few years, uranium mines have been shutting down due to oversupply and crashing prices.

Uranium is a relatively common element in the Earth's Crust, and it would be impossible to control the supply. The US doesn't need to produce uranium as it is cheaper to buy elsewhere, and they have huge stockpiles.

I guess you didn't know this?

[Tero]

All fake news 42. Clinton picked up the same 500 000 at every stop in Eurasia.

And in any case, irrelevant. Hillary or Bill can’t be impeached. Trump the businessman will pay huge sum to NY for laundering, racketeering, hiding and faking payments that were in fact inheritance. Trump the president is going up for election fraud. Conspiracy. Collusion is just a fake news word.

[Hermit]

Well if we didn't bother to analyze the arguments of those engaging in biased reporting and manufacturing faux scandals, we'd have nobody to read.

In order to get the full, unvarnished truth behind the story I'll wait for what Ann Coulter and Alex Jones have to say before I form my opinion about it.

Well, if biased sources, and biased writers were your issue, you'd have mentioned this on the other threads dealing with Russian collusion allegations.

Nice to see that bias is not an issue for you.

As for me, I can find only two posts in which I have explicitly commented on Trump's alleged involvement in collusion with Russia.

I think, along with millions of others, that Trump has colluded with the Russians, but at this point my opinion lives in the land of speculation.

...at this stage there is no evidence that Trump was personally involved or aware of that collusion. Until some tapes or other records turn up he is in the same position as Nixon before he was forced to hand over his recordings, and until then we can but speculate.

You may safely conclude from my comments that I regard any and all assertions to the effect that Trump's direct and personal involvement in collusion with Russia is a fact is borne of bias.

[Tero]

Never fear, hermit! We will find the smoking phallic object before Nov 2020 election!

As for the Clintons, years of scrutiny from Whitewater on have proven no crimes. Even though Bill date raped the social worker.

[Woodbutcher]

My father was born in a village that is now part of Russia...

Your father's from Washington DC?

No, he was born before Russia's US Purchase was ratified. The US got Trump Tower Moskva, and the Russians got Alaska and Washington, DC.

[JimC]

Forty Two wrote:

I think this is probably true: "As secretary of State, Hillary Clinton worked with Russian leaders, including Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and then-President Dmitri Medvedev, to create U.S. technology partnerships with Moscow’s version of Silicon Valley, a sprawling high-tech campus known as Skolkovo." And, from the Trump allegations, if someone tries to build a building in Moscow, that's an indication of collusion with the Russian government, because nothing gets built without Putin's say-so.

There is a very significant difference. Hillary was not the owner of high-tech businesses wanting Russian partnerships. If Trump wants a hotel built in Moscow, he has a clear and direct pecuniary interest.

[Cunt]

So you're withholding judgement at this time - you have no opinion on the matter?

Scared to forward your own opinion on this, eh Brian Peacock. I'll post here so you can focus on me again.

So Bill raped, as someone tried to gloss over upthread (by calling it 'date rape')

The democrats supported him so firmly, that they supported his wife, and supporting partner, for the highest office in the land.

Then they went batshit crazy about alleged teen drunken groping from decades ago.

It's the dems virtue signaling that will be the end of them.

They just virtue signalled for YEARS that doing sketchy stuff with the Russians is evil and suspicious.

Now we all know how evil they think it is, and we will see how much of that evil they did.

[Jason]

Hillary was a wall Street puppet. They shoveled money at her. She did not need Russian money. The Foundation is legit.

21st century statescraft yo!

[Brian Peacock]

So you're withholding judgement at this time - you have no opinion on the matter?

Scared to forward your own opinion on this, eh Brian Peacock. I'll post here so you can focus on me again.

I posted my opinion. You missed it.

So Bill raped, as someone tried to gloss over upthread (by calling it 'date rape')

Your whataboutism-fu is weak.

The democrats supported him so firmly, that they supported his wife, and supporting partner, for the highest office in the land.

Correlation is not causation, nor is declaring the opposite an argument, it's a fallacy. A fallacy is an error in reasoning.

Then they went batshit crazy about alleged teen drunken groping from decades ago.

It's the dems virtue signaling that will be the end of them.

They just virtue signalled for YEARS that doing sketchy stuff with the Russians is evil and suspicious.

It's virtue signalling to criticise people for virtue signalling. This is another form of fallacy, the tu quoque, or appeal to hypocrisy.

Now we all know how evil they think it is, and we will see how much of that evil they did.

You have arrived at you conclusion without demonstrating how you got there and now are merely waiting for it to be confirmed. You have put the cart before the horse. If your conclusion isn't confirmed no doubt you will turn to berating others for being closed minded, for not accepting the facts, and for being biased against your conclusion - which, don't forget, will still be unconfirmed.

There is no obligation on people to accept your premises nor argue on the terms or according to the conditions you set unless you can make a stab at a reasonable justification for them. While your arguments remain flawed in these ways there is (quite literally) no point to be made, and certainly nothing to be gained, in even pretending to take your declarations and insistences seriously.

Your turn.

[rainbow]

They just virtue signalled for YEARS that doing sketchy stuff with the Russians is evil and suspicious.

What "sketchy stuff" are you talking about?

[Cunt]

There is no obligation on people to accept your premises nor argue on the terms or according to the conditions you set unless you can make a stab at a reasonable justification for them. While your arguments remain flawed in these ways there is (quite literally) no point to be made, and certainly nothing to be gained, in even pretending to take your declarations and insistences seriously.

Your turn.

Let me tighten this up.

Dems keep loudly screaming about what is shitty behaviour.

Next, Dems demonstrate that behaviour.

It helps with the 2020 election.

[Cunt]

They just virtue signalled for YEARS that doing sketchy stuff with the Russians is evil and suspicious.

What "sketchy stuff" are you talking about?

For the last couple years, they have been pushing this 'Russian Collusion' idea, as something sketchy. There were no facts, just the phrase 'Russian Collusion' repeated.

[Forty Two]

Nice to see that bias is not an issue for you.

Bias is an issue. It's an issue to be discussed in connection with forum threads. If someone posts a post from the Daily Kos, HuffPo, Vox, CNN, MSNBC, or whatever, it doesn't mean those sources don't have something good to say and discuss. They can have good points, despite their general bias.

I think, along with millions of others, that Trump has colluded with the Russians, but at this point my opinion lives in the land of speculation.

...at this stage there is no evidence that Trump was personally involved or aware of that collusion. Until some tapes or other records turn up he is in the same position as Nixon before he was forced to hand over his recordings, and until then we can but speculate.

You may safely conclude from my comments that I regard any and all assertions to the effect that Trump's direct and personal involvement in collusion with Russia is a fact is borne of bias.

Of course. That didn't require any proof, because nobody has provided any evidence of improper collusion with the Russians, by Trump or anyone on his campaign, so anyone who says that they "believe" Trump colluded with the Russians must be doing so from a non-evidentiary basis.