Black boxes. Another failure.

Post by **pErvinalia** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:37 am

Terrorists took his dog hostage and threatened to eat it if he didn't crash the plane.

Post by **Brian Peacock** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:45 am

Too soon man. Too soon.

Post by **pErvinalia** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:52 am

I was joking, of course, but an extortion scenario could be a possibility. Somehow they've got to come up with an explanation of how an apparently sane man decided to murder all those people in such a dramatic fashion.

Post by **JimC** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:59 am

He was a bit sad, so...

Post by **cronus** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:54 am

JimC wrote:He was a bit sad, so...

Being completely wacko depressed does not mean you are unfit to work, in a nuclear submarine or anything like that. Airplane pilots crashing planes and schizophrenic cooks decapitating owners of restaurants. The amazing progress of tick-box culture and it's triumph over common sense knows no bounds. You know it'll save money, cos it's all about the money honey - and avoiding time to think.

http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/SundayTimesBop.pdf

Post by **Xamonas Chegwé** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:14 pm

He "hid evidence of an illness" allegedly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32087203

Post by **Svartalf** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:37 pm

well, torn sickness leave papers WERE found in his home and he wasn't supposed to be working on the day it happened...

Post by **pErvinalia** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:00 pm

Therefore he's a homicidal maniac...

Post by **Sean Hayden** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:36 pm

He would have been aware of other pilot suicides, and there's a chance that as a pilot he would have had a unique take on them. What do you suppose he might have seen in them that the rest of us don't?

-probably just that oranges make poor mermen

Post by **Brian Peacock** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:32 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:Therefore he's a homicidal maniac...

If only the passengers had been allowed to carry guns.

Post by **Xamonas Chegwé** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:33 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Therefore he's a homicidal maniac...
If only the passengers had been allowed to carry guns.

L8

Post by **Brian Peacock** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:34 pm

Post by **mistermack** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:37 pm

What this shows up is a nasty dilemma that any pilot faces, if they suffer from any depression, or similar mental problem.
If you own up, you're probably destroying any chance of future employment. If you don't, you could just get worse and worse, without effective treatment.
And being caught in that impossible trap, in a vulnerable state, could lead to homicidal resentment.

Of course, the right thing to do would be to notify everyone straight away, get treated, and take the consequences.
But I can't see myself doing that. Not if I knew very well that I would never work as a pilot again.
I would do my best to fight it on my own. Or maybe find some medic who would guarantee my anonymity, if that's possible.
But of course, a blood test would probably show up any drugs that were in my system, so that might be a non-starter.

I don't know what the best answer would be. Can you give a guarantee to any pilot that they will be re-employed, once they have been successfully treated? I can't see that happening.
But anything short of that will push any pilot with a mental health issue into the same corner, with very possibly the same result.

So it looks like pilots will carry on facing the same impossible dilemma, any time they get any kind of depression or mental problem. And most will decline treatment, or hide it, or a bit of both like this guy did.

I don't think keeping a minimum of two in the cockpit will solve the problem.
If you really want to do it, you can use force, or trickery, to get the other person out, and lock the door. In America, they could even carry a gun, and force the other pilot to leave, or just shoot them.

If you have a special way of opening the door available, hijackers will get to know that, and it will be less safe overall, not more.

So the only way I can see, is to bite the bullet, have a special procedure for pilots reporting stress, or depression, or any kind of mental issue, that doesn't close off the rest of their career, just because they sought treatment. It may be risky, but is it any more risky than leaving them to try to carry on, hiding it? I think probably not.

Post by **cronus** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:03 pm

It'd be interesting to see if meds for depression were involved? A well known side effect of anti-depressent usages is suicidal thinking during 'recovery' stage. The most dangerous time for a depressive is in the initial stages of recovery when meds give the lift whilst thinking might still be rather bleak. If it's med induced suicide then the prescribing doctors are in part culpable for not alerting the airline of the medical situation directly.

Post by **mistermack** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:13 pm

Scumple wrote:It'd be interesting to see if meds for depression were involved? A well known side effect of anti-depressent usages is suicidal thinking during 'recovery' stage. The most dangerous time for a depressive is in the initial stages of recovery when meds give the lift whilst thinking might still be rather bleak. If it's med induced suicide then the prescribing doctors are in part culpable for not alerting the airline of the medical situation directly.

But then, if doctors are obliged to notify airlines, pilots won't seek treatment. It's a vicious circle.

rationalia.com

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