NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

[Warren Dew]

I also wonder what our conservative members, who will no doubt whine about Obama being a tyrant, thought of the original Patriot Act twelve years ago. It was the Patriot Act that was cited to get this approved.

I'm probably what passes for conservative around here, and I thought the USAPAT act was an abomination at the time.

I will also note that it was highly bipartisan, passing on a 98-1 vote. Don't blame that abomination just on "conservatives".

[pErvinalia]

Yep. If anyone thinks there is a meaningful distinction between the Dems and Repubs on the paranoid authoritarian state, then think again. We are heading into very dangerous times, with the internet allowing people access to stuff that was simply not accessible in other times. It's allowing organisation and protest to occur at levels that dwarf anything in the past. The state, whether Dem or Repub, simply do not like that, as it threatens their authority (and the implicit authority of their corporate financiers).

[camoguard]

I don't agree. America is going to be fine. It just has some bills to pay.

[Tero]

The Gubmint needs to turn off the Internet. Nothing but porn and terrorists and atheists.

[Warren Dew]

In addition to phone records, they're also getting data from Facebook, Google, etc.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/investiga ... story.html

Rationalia does not appear to be one of the nine internet companies involved, though.

[laklak]

Good fucking thing, I'm on enough watch lists as it is.

The Patriot Act was a cynical ploy to greatly increase government power, particularly executive branch power, at the expense of Constitutionally guaranteed individual liberties. Indefinite detention without charge let alone trial, warrantless wiretaps, no right to counsel, torture, secret court systems - all in the name of national security. It's blatantly unconstitutional bullshit and it needs to be repealed immediately.

This latest debacle can't be blamed on the Republicans, though. Bush wasn't in office on April 25th of this year, this one's squarely on O'Bammy's back. As are the IRS scandals, Benghazi, fast & furious, and now the revelations of server spying. The guy is a totalitarian thug, a strong-arm Chicago machine politician of note. Richard Daley would be proud of him.

Why everyone isn't voting Libertarian is beyond me.

[pErvinalia]

Because they are nutbags. Surely you have some social democratic parties there to vote for?

[Tero]

Where does it say anything about Facebook and cell phones in the constitution?

[Coito ergo sum]

I read stuff like this and my thinking about America suddenly changes. .

You have newfound respect, because Merka is doing things like the Yerpeeins do?

[Coito ergo sum]

Issued just after the Boston bombing and expires next month. It probably had to do with Boston.

I'm not in favor of it, but before anyone starts beating the republic-is-doomed drum, let's see who, if anyone, ends up arrested because of this. (I also wonder what our conservative members, who will no doubt whine about Obama being a tyrant, thought of the original Patriot Act twelve years ago. It was the Patriot Act that was cited to get this approved.)

I know what our Lefty members used to say about the Patriot Act. And, I know they supported Obama because it was time for "Change" in this regard and others. When he does what they otherwise would object to, if done by someone else, it's o.k. He's a good guy. We trust him. What he does is "sensible." And, he balances competing interests of safety and security and freedoms, such that we can do the objectionable things and not find them objectionable.

[Coito ergo sum]

Thing is though Ian, it's a bit rich to use weapons you're opposed to, no? Not I'm saying the current regime is opposed to using the patriot act, but I think much of their support is, thus such actions are going to lose them some of that support. Tactically it may have been useful, strategically not so much.

Oddly enough - this kind of thing doesn't effect popular support for Obama. Nothing has, yet, materially done so. All he has to do is say he didn't know much about it and it was the military/counterintelligence agencies acting on their own. Then he says "things have gone too far, and we need to explore a proper balance between safety and freedom/privacy -- we can do both" and his supporters respond with an attitude of "of course he wasn't involved in this -- this is all pre-Obama (Bush's fault) -- and now that he knows about it we know he'll get in there and come up with a sensible compromise." Now back to sleep....

[camoguard]

Go Obama! Matter of fact, I'd Roosevelt him and vote him in a few more times. At least until the Right side of Congress realized their job depended on working with him.

[Coito ergo sum]

7 years. 3 is from Bush.

oh, all good then. Since Bush did it, it must be o.k.

[Clinton Huxley]

I bet Alex Jones is having a field day.

[Tero]

7 years. 3 is from Bush.

oh, all good then. Since Bush did it, it must be o.k.

Sure. Everything is Bush's fault including Wall st bailout. Recovery thanks to Obama and the Fed. Go Gubment!