Pollution in China

[Seth]

It's weird how different people can come up with such different self serving fantasies about China, and none of them bear any significant resemblance to the reality.

I'm aware the reality isn't only what is depicted in those photos. The same can be said for any country ... taking the worst (or the best) and saying that's representative is manipulative ... yep, I know that. That said, the worst is so often swept under the rug ... At least bringing it to light for consideration and debate might be a positive step toward improvement.

If you think some of us are in error about our thinking, please discuss it.

The problem, of course, is that there are too many Chinese, and their political system disrespects the rights of the individual, so the harmed individual (even large groups of them), has no power to claim protection against the malfeasance of government and its failure to regulate toxins.

IOW, the problem is Communism itself. The goals of the Central Committee and their centrally-planned economic judgments are supreme, and harm to individuals is ignored because, as Mao said when he starved 40 million Chinese to death during the cultural revolution, there are plenty more where they came from.

In the US, every INDIVIDUAL has a cause of action against the state if the state fails to enforce its own environmental protection laws to the detriment of the individual.

So thank Marx and Mao for the plight of the Chinese people.

[charlou]

It's weird how different people can come up with such different self serving fantasies about China, and none of them bear any significant resemblance to the reality.

I'm aware the reality isn't only what is depicted in those photos. The same can be said for any country ... taking the worst (or the best) and saying that's representative is manipulative ... yep, I know that. That said, the worst is so often swept under the rug ... At least bringing it to light for consideration and debate might be a positive step toward improvement.

If you think some of us are in error about our thinking, please discuss it.

The problem, of course, is that there are too many Chinese, and their political system disrespects the rights of the individual, so the harmed individual (even large groups of them), has no power to claim protection against the malfeasance of government and its failure to regulate toxins.

IOW, the problem is Communism itself. The goals of the Central Committee and their centrally-planned economic judgments are supreme, and harm to individuals is ignored because, as Mao said when he starved 40 million Chinese to death during the cultural revolution, there are plenty more where they came from.

In the US, every INDIVIDUAL has a cause of action against the state if the state fails to enforce its own environmental protection laws to the detriment of the individual.

So thank Marx and Mao for the plight of the Chinese people.

Thanks for the biased bollocks lecture, but it's not that simple either.

[JimC]

It's weird how different people can come up with such different self serving fantasies about China, and none of them bear any significant resemblance to the reality.

I'm aware the reality isn't only what is depicted in those photos. The same can be said for any country ... taking the worst (or the best) and saying that's representative is manipulative ... yep, I know that. That said, the worst is so often swept under the rug ... At least bringing it to light for consideration and debate might be a positive step toward improvement.

If you think some of us are in error about our thinking, please discuss it.

The problem, of course, is that there are too many Chinese, and their political system disrespects the rights of the individual, so the harmed individual (even large groups of them), has no power to claim protection against the malfeasance of government and its failure to regulate toxins.

IOW, the problem is Communism itself. The goals of the Central Committee and their centrally-planned economic judgments are supreme, and harm to individuals is ignored because, as Mao said when he starved 40 million Chinese to death during the cultural revolution, there are plenty more where they came from.

In the US, every INDIVIDUAL has a cause of action against the state if the state fails to enforce its own environmental protection laws to the detriment of the individual.

So thank Marx and Mao for the plight of the Chinese people.

Thanks for the biased bollocks lecture, but it's not that simple either.

I agree that it's not that simple, but Seth has a point, within his inevitable hyperbole; the authoritarian nature of the Chinese rule, the lack of a free press etc. means that environmental issues can get swept under the carpet more readily than in western democracies...

[kiki5711]

Aside from feeling sorry for those people, what I'm really pissed off about is that I am forced to buy the products made in China with the blood of those people. If I find something I need made in some other country, I buy it, but that's far and few in between.

Buying products made in China is what gives them the money to address these issues, which they are starting to do.

Perhaps worse per unit of production, but they have ramped up production massively since then...

To the contrary, old style heavy industry, which is the worst polluting, has declined in China since Maoism. What's increased is light industry, which isn't as bad environmentally.

and here's what the new "Chinese Rich" do with their time and money:

Money men: Who owns what

Huang Guangyu, 36
Company: Eagle Investments
Industry: Household appliances, property
Fortune 14 billion RMB (about £1bn)
Huang, the richest person in China, started his electronic appliances business Gome in Beijing when he was 17. Now there are more than 100 stores nationwide. Asked what his life is like, he said: "My life is two points on a single line, from home to office." The only change is "when seeing anything I like, I can buy it without hesitation and don't need to think of the price".

Yan Jiehe, 41
Company: China Pacific Construction
His £850m fortune comes from road-building. He owns the largest civil construction business in the country with sales in 2005 expected to hit £2.3bn and staff of 100,000. He said drinking was an important part of his job because he must wine and dine government officials.

Timothy Chen Tianqiao, 32
Company: Shanda Networking Development
Industry: Online games and internet portal
He is the youngest on a rich list with an average age under 40. Chen said his life was unchanged in the past five years: up at 8am, at his office at 9am, lunch and supper in the company canteen, home at 11pm. Asked what his hobby is, Chen said: "Working."

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Buffett and Gates held a charity banquet in China to inspire new millionaires to share their wealth, ONLY 50 people showed up, not necessarily the "actual" millionaires/billionaires..

Buffett, Gates Hold Charity Banquet
Today's generation of successful entrepreneurs has the chance to lead and inspire giving for generations to come

[Santa_Claus]

Who would have beleived that there is a reason why all that Chinese shit is cheap.........

[kiki5711]

here's another way the "new" "chinese rich" have found to spend their money on. Well, it's their money of course, they can do whatever they want with it, but I'd like to hear some stories where the "new rich Chinese" are helping their own countrymen have better working conditions and lives, but that's of course in the hands of the government, mostly I guess, and as long as they're able to sell cheap shit made for pennies a day at the cost of many people's lives, IT AIN'T GONNA CHANGE..

Everything is for sale, from prospective brides...
Another indication of the emergence of a new layer of super-wealthy individuals is the growing market for luxury goods, from expensive cars… to prospective brides! Yes, there is an on-line dating site which caters specifically for the very particular needs of the obscenely wealthy rich singletons. Membership of the Golden Bachelor “Diamond Love” costs 300,000 Yuan ($44,000). Its website states in Chinese the qualifications for joining: “a personal or family wealth of at least 2 million yuan ($292,000); a background that is extremely superior, wealthy and aristocratic; very good personal qualities or young, talented and beautiful.”

Golden Bachelor claims to have 5 million registered members and according to a CNN report it throws lavish matchmaking parties. One of these “bride markets” was held on December 20 in Beijing in a luxury hotel. “The ticket price was 100,000 yuan, ($14,600); 21 single women and 22 single men attended. Ladies took part in a wedding gown show and also sang, danced, even cooked for their moneyed suitors during a talent program.” But it was money well spent as “eighty percent of those who came found a date, according to the company.

[Hermit]

I really don't know what to say............,

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/ama ... -in-china/

It's horrible.

I have sent the link to someone else. He can't see it because he is in China at the moment. The site is blocked there.

[kiki5711]

I suppose some may think, well....... better they suffer there, than us here. Cuzzz the corporations are not going to seek ways to minimize pollution but drag it out as long as they can until they get stopped in some way. In the mean time, profits must be made.

Where will it be moved next, once China starts uprising against this brutal treatment of the poor unrepresented workers. Perhaps, Africa, or some other god forsaken place where people are so down trodden, they're forced to do anything they can to survive, while the corporate profits increase and the CEOs get their Christmas bonuses for work well done.

[Svartalf]

No wonder Foxconn has to get its workers to sign a contract promising not to commit suicide.

except how do you sue somebody who's dead?

[devogue]

Hey, ever debilitated, dead Communist is a good Communist. Maybe with all the pollution and oppression people will get fed up enough with their Communist masters to put THEM all on their knees and put a bullet in their necks, then China can become a true capitalist free market society and join the civilized world.

Until then, the more chronic lung disease and cancer they get, the better, it makes them weaker as enemies, which they are right now.

Oh, I'm sure they could rustle up a few million men without chronic disease and lung cancer to be your enemy.

[MrJonno]

Yeah unfetered capitalism without any market regulations environmental disaster thats China

[kiki5711]

Yeah unfetered capitalism without any market regulations environmental disaster thats China

I think, and this is my opinion, the "priviliged/corporations/the new rich/ feel, "well, there's so many people on earth, some have to die for other to prosper. Total indifference to life. It's cold and ruthless and unfortunatelly, "way of the world".

Every now and then, we'll hear about a "Robin Hood" type somewhere out there, standing up for the common man and the poor. But, mostly, many have become so
desensitized that there's no feeling left at all, or remorse, nor humanity as some of us know and feel.

[Seth]

Yeah unfetered capitalism without any market regulations environmental disaster thats China

Who said anything about "unfetered (sic) capitalism without any market regulations" except you? Nobody.

This is yet another deliberate and mendacious distortion of the theory of free market capitalism that leftists like to toss out like it's a truth.

[Seth]

It's weird how different people can come up with such different self serving fantasies about China, and none of them bear any significant resemblance to the reality.

I'm aware the reality isn't only what is depicted in those photos. The same can be said for any country ... taking the worst (or the best) and saying that's representative is manipulative ... yep, I know that. That said, the worst is so often swept under the rug ... At least bringing it to light for consideration and debate might be a positive step toward improvement.

If you think some of us are in error about our thinking, please discuss it.

The problem, of course, is that there are too many Chinese, and their political system disrespects the rights of the individual, so the harmed individual (even large groups of them), has no power to claim protection against the malfeasance of government and its failure to regulate toxins.

IOW, the problem is Communism itself. The goals of the Central Committee and their centrally-planned economic judgments are supreme, and harm to individuals is ignored because, as Mao said when he starved 40 million Chinese to death during the cultural revolution, there are plenty more where they came from.

In the US, every INDIVIDUAL has a cause of action against the state if the state fails to enforce its own environmental protection laws to the detriment of the individual.

So thank Marx and Mao for the plight of the Chinese people.

Thanks for the biased bollocks lecture, but it's not that simple either.

Oh, it's pretty much that simple.

[Seth]

I really don't know what to say............,

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/ama ... -in-china/

It's horrible.

I have sent the link to someone else. He can't see it because he is in China at the moment. The site is blocked there.

Gee, I wonder why, and by whom?

Could it be........Communists!?