The Wikileaks databank

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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by sandinista » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:28 am

Ian wrote:
Don't Panic wrote:This is a gentle reminder to play nice kids, we can discuss these things without resorting to namecalling.
When the likes of gawd and sandi (the angriest trolls on the forum) show up, I find myself stooping to their level. They make the whole forum a gloomier, less enjoyable place, and I don't think there many if any here who would dispute that. I don't know why I feel obliged to criticize them for it, but sometimes I do.
Which begs the question - why did I even bother responding to them? I don't have an answer, so you're right - I'll quit feeding the trolls. My mistake. :pardon:

And I don't think you're a freak, DP. :hugs:
First of all, YOU are a bigger troll than anyone around here, and a reminder, YOU started trolling here,
Ian wrote:
Gawd wrote:So you are afraid that Assange will expose the war crimes of the US? That's something you should be supporting, even if you are an American. Assange is a hero.
Um yeah, that's exactly what I'm "afraid of". :roll:

Could you possibly make one post, just once, that doesn't make you sound like a horse's ass? :dunno:
so take your elitism and stick it up your ass, really. YOU are the one who makes this forum less enjoyable to be honest. If you want to "quit feeding trolls" stop posting altogether.
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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Don't Panic » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:29 am

This is a less gentle reminder to play nice, we can discuss these things without resorting to namecalling.
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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by sandinista » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:35 am

Apologies DP, is "troll" considered namecalling?
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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by AncientMuse » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:37 am

Don't Panic wrote: This has the potential to be a very interesting topic, freedom of speech Vs. National security is probably going to be one of the major cyber-battlegrounds for the foreseeable future.
Very true indeed.

The question is where that fine line gets drawn and what potentials could cause a slippery slope.
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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Ian » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:38 am

sandinista wrote:
Ian wrote:
Don't Panic wrote:This is a gentle reminder to play nice kids, we can discuss these things without resorting to namecalling.
When the likes of gawd and sandi (the angriest trolls on the forum) show up, I find myself stooping to their level. They make the whole forum a gloomier, less enjoyable place, and I don't think there many if any here who would dispute that. I don't know why I feel obliged to criticize them for it, but sometimes I do.
Which begs the question - why did I even bother responding to them? I don't have an answer, so you're right - I'll quit feeding the trolls. My mistake. :pardon:

And I don't think you're a freak, DP. :hugs:
First of all, YOU are a bigger troll than anyone around here, and a reminder, YOU started trolling here,
Ian wrote:
Gawd wrote:So you are afraid that Assange will expose the war crimes of the US? That's something you should be supporting, even if you are an American. Assange is a hero.
Um yeah, that's exactly what I'm "afraid of". :roll:

Could you possibly make one post, just once, that doesn't make you sound like a horse's ass? :dunno:
so take your elitism and stick it up your ass, really. YOU are the one who makes this forum less enjoyable to be honest. If you want to "quit feeding trolls" stop posting altogether.
I started trolling here, really? I didn't start this thread. Three hours ago I posted a comment about Wikileaks' new server facility and the supposed "Doomsday File" threat from Assange.
Then Gawd showed up, doing what Gawd does best, and I gave a him a slap for it. Then you showed up, naturally defending this intellectual giant. Are you honestly surprised that some people here refer to you as angry and a troll? C'mon now.

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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Gawd » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:41 am

Ian wrote:
Gawd wrote:
Ian wrote:And sandinista comes in right on schedule! :clap:

I suppose you wouldn't mind Wikileaks releasing something that "directly threatens the security of the American people", you wannabe sociopath.
Don't explain your reasoning to me. Explain it to my 5-yr old daughter.
Yeah, who wouldn't want to "threaten" US insecurity by exposing that the US is the main backer of terrorist groups through Saudi Arabia.

To your daughter, tell her that mommy and daddy are very bad people.
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, you're paranoid?
If Assange had anything like that, I think he would have released it by now!
Umm, Assange does have something like that and the New York Times have already published articles about that. There is even a thread about it in the "I hate Israel" subforum. Where have you been?

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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by sandinista » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:41 am

Ian wrote:
sandinista wrote:
Ian wrote:
Don't Panic wrote:This is a gentle reminder to play nice kids, we can discuss these things without resorting to namecalling.
When the likes of gawd and sandi (the angriest trolls on the forum) show up, I find myself stooping to their level. They make the whole forum a gloomier, less enjoyable place, and I don't think there many if any here who would dispute that. I don't know why I feel obliged to criticize them for it, but sometimes I do.
Which begs the question - why did I even bother responding to them? I don't have an answer, so you're right - I'll quit feeding the trolls. My mistake. :pardon:

And I don't think you're a freak, DP. :hugs:
First of all, YOU are a bigger troll than anyone around here, and a reminder, YOU started trolling here,
Ian wrote:
Gawd wrote:So you are afraid that Assange will expose the war crimes of the US? That's something you should be supporting, even if you are an American. Assange is a hero.
Um yeah, that's exactly what I'm "afraid of". :roll:

Could you possibly make one post, just once, that doesn't make you sound like a horse's ass? :dunno:
so take your elitism and stick it up your ass, really. YOU are the one who makes this forum less enjoyable to be honest. If you want to "quit feeding trolls" stop posting altogether.
I started trolling here, really? I didn't start this thread. Three hours ago I posted a comment about Wikileaks' new server facility and the supposed "Doomsday File" threat from Assange.
Then Gawd showed up, doing what Gawd does best, and I gave a him a slap for it. Then you showed up, naturally defending this intellectual giant. Are you honestly surprised that some people here refer to you as angry and a troll? C'mon now.
I was only defending Gawd because of your little childish tirade against him. You gave no one a "slap", you just resorted to namecalling as per usual. If anyone here is a troll it is you. People around here know that as well as I do.
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.

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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:44 am

Don't Panic wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Don't Panic wrote:This is a gentle reminder to play nice kids, we can discuss these things without resorting to namecalling.
Freak.
Less of that, old man.
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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Gawd » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 am

Ian wrote:
sandinista wrote:
Ian wrote:
Don't Panic wrote:This is a gentle reminder to play nice kids, we can discuss these things without resorting to namecalling.
When the likes of gawd and sandi (the angriest trolls on the forum) show up, I find myself stooping to their level. They make the whole forum a gloomier, less enjoyable place, and I don't think there many if any here who would dispute that. I don't know why I feel obliged to criticize them for it, but sometimes I do.
Which begs the question - why did I even bother responding to them? I don't have an answer, so you're right - I'll quit feeding the trolls. My mistake. :pardon:

And I don't think you're a freak, DP. :hugs:
First of all, YOU are a bigger troll than anyone around here, and a reminder, YOU started trolling here,
Ian wrote:
Gawd wrote:So you are afraid that Assange will expose the war crimes of the US? That's something you should be supporting, even if you are an American. Assange is a hero.
Um yeah, that's exactly what I'm "afraid of". :roll:

Could you possibly make one post, just once, that doesn't make you sound like a horse's ass? :dunno:
so take your elitism and stick it up your ass, really. YOU are the one who makes this forum less enjoyable to be honest. If you want to "quit feeding trolls" stop posting altogether.
I started trolling here, really? I didn't start this thread. Three hours ago I posted a comment about Wikileaks' new server facility and the supposed "Doomsday File" threat from Assange.
Then Gawd showed up, doing what Gawd does best, and I gave a him a slap for it. Then you showed up, naturally defending this intellectual giant. Are you honestly surprised that some people here refer to you as angry and a troll? C'mon now.
Ummm, Ian, my exact words in my first post of this thread was "Yah for Anonymous!!!"

You consider that trolling? Geeze, this is like people calling me an anti-Semite: toss it out whenever they don't have an argument.

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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Ian » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:48 am

sandinista wrote: I was only defending Gawd because of your little childish tirade against him. You gave no one a "slap", you just resorted to namecalling as per usual. If anyone here is a troll it is you. People around here know that as well as I do.
And to think you once accused me of being thin-skinned. I think people around here know the difference between me and you & Gawd perfectly well!
You know why I resorted to the name-calling? Because I forgot that I had resolved to stop talking to people like you two. How's this for name-calling: you are in every way a lesser intellect, and Gawd even more so. You guys really ask for it, and I think you know that. Read through your posts and his and then tell me that you never egg people on.

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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by sandinista » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:49 am

Gawd
Ummm, Ian, my exact words in my first post of this thread was "Yah for Anonymous!!!"
You consider that trolling? Geeze, this is like people calling me an anti-Semite: toss it out whenever they don't have an argument.
:mehthis:

and he can't even stop after being told on numerous occasions, just keeps on trucking with "Then you showed up, naturally defending this intellectual giant" referring to Gawd. I mean it's like he has Tourettes or something.
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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:52 am

Sandy V., when do you post anything that isn't a troll?
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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Ian » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:52 am

sandinista wrote::mehthis:

and he can't even stop after being told on numerous occasions, just keeps on trucking with "Then you showed up, naturally defending this intellectual giant" referring to Gawd. I mean it's like he has Tourettes or something.
Hey dude, if you're putting yourself in Gawd's political camp, then you deal with the assessments about him coming your way as well.

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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Mishakal » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:58 am

Well far from what the mainstream media said at first, some interesting stuff is coming to light due to the cableleaks, ranging from revelations that the Chinese are ok with an eventual collapse of North Korea to the fact that it is ARAB states and not Israel that is pushing for an invasion of Iran.

The problem that the cableleaks exposed is one that is going to plague governments due to the rise of the Internet, the more things you try to keep secret, the less people will respect the state for the secret keeping. In addition that, the more secrets you have the more people you have to have in the loop in order to do their jobs properly, and with an excess of secret keeping and a large pool of people with access to them someone is bound to lose respect for the system and expose everything.

Just before the leak, there were over 800,000 people with the kind of access required to view everything that was declared Top Secret by the United States government and the bulk of the governments business was kept under lock and key and after 9/11 the establishment of a special intranet to distribute ALL of the classified material to make it easier for those with clearance to access the data, this is and was a recipe for disaster.

Now the gov. can do one of two things, reform the system so they can be proud of the things that they do and display them to the public, or go into bunker mode and balkanize everything and become even less efficient than they already are. Either way the winner will be the American people because we will either get a better government, or at least an inefficient bad one.
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Re: The Wikileaks databank

Post by Ian » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:03 am

Mishakal wrote:Well far from what the mainstream media said at first, some interesting stuff is coming to light due to the cableleaks, ranging from revelations that the Chinese are ok with an eventual collapse of North Korea to the fact that it is ARAB states and not Israel that is pushing for an invasion of Iran.

The problem that the cableleaks exposed is one that is going to plague governments due to the rise of the Internet, the more things you try to keep secret, the less people will respect the state for the secret keeping. In addition that, the more secrets you have the more people you have to have in the loop in order to do their jobs properly, and with an excess of secret keeping and a large pool of people with access to them someone is bound to lose respect for the system and expose everything.

Just before the leak, there were over 800,000 people with the kind of access required to view everything that was declared Top Secret by the United States government and the bulk of the governments business was kept under lock and key and after 9/11 the establishment of a special intranet to distribute ALL of the classified material to make it easier for those with clearance to access the data became a recipe for disaster.

Now the gov. can do one of two things, reform the system so they can be proud of the things that they do and display them to the public, or go into bunker mode and balkanize everything and become even less efficient than they already are. Either way the winner will be the American people because we will either get a better government, or at least an inefficient bad one.
Ah, back on track!

One of the real dangers of Wikileaks is that, ironically, the blowback may cause less information sharing among agencies and governments. Fewer people looking at a variety of data, fewer diplomats and leaders willing to be candid with each other, etc. And, therefore, fewer leaks coming Wikileaks' way.

The State Department's database of diplomatic cables has already been cut from Secret-level servers in most if not all areas. I sincerely hope it goes no further - the worst danger being that we could go back to pre-9/11 levels of information sharing. Who knows if another major attack will not be foiled because the right people were not coordinating with each other? Or if some abuse of power is going on, but fewer people hear about it and thus the odds of it getting leaked go down? I doubt that much blowback willl be the case, but it's worth mentioning.

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