Well, no shit. Thanks CNN - Voting derail

[sandinista]

Ian

Excuses are like assholes. But I don't need to tell you that.

What the fuck are you on about? Excuse for what?

Excuses for not voting. If you don't want to, fine - but don't claim it's because it's all a sham and you're too smart for it. That's really pathetic.

I can conclude this whole issue by pointing to a single example: the US elections in 2000. Maybe it was all a "sham" in your view. Maybe both candidates were distasteful to John Q. Voter. But the idea that no real change comes either way is a crock of shit. If a tiny higher percentage of people in Florida showed up, or didn't waste their votes on Nader and checked the Democrat instead, we would've had President Gore instead of President Bush. Tell me that wouldn't have made any real difference!

(btw - the "smart" ones don't stay home. The more educated people are, the more likely they are to show up on election day. Basic demographics.)

I need no excuse to not vote. Voting is nothing but a smokescreen, an illusion to give the appearance of "democracy". I need no excuse. I don't claim its a sham, it is a sham. "Educated" does not always equate to "smart" BTW.

[sandinista]

I think as long as "the man in the street " has his views and opinions informed by a Tabloid press I wouldn't want democracy anyway .

And Ian , next election I will not vote and will still have every right to complain when the powers that Be FUCK ME OVER .

My point wasn't that if you vote you won't get fucked over. It's that if you don't vote your opinion really means nothing, certainly not to anyone campaining for office. At least make your opinion official, then gripe about getting fucked over by the powers that be. If you don't bother, you're just assuming it's guaranteed to happen anyway. That's either nihilistic or masochistic, I'm not sure which.

If you vote you won't get fucked over pure humor. Who cares if your opinion means nothing to anyone campaigning for office? It matters not who's campaigning for office, why would I care if they "care" about my opinion? When I don't vote I make my opinion official. I vote with the only vote that matters, my wallet.

[Ian]

I need no excuse to not vote. Voting is nothing but a smokescreen, an illusion to give the appearance of "democracy". I need no excuse. I don't claim its a sham, it is a sham. "Educated" does not always equate to "smart" BTW.

You're so sure it's never anything but an illusion and a sham, huh? That's the sign that you're not too bright - you have no doubts about your opinions. I'm not about to say the opposite, btw. Sometimes elections are a load of crap. Sometimes they're not.

I hereby quote the Doobie Brothers: "What a fool believes, the wise man has the power to reason away."

You're so convinced you're right, and you wonder why you don't get much respect around here.

No, educated does not equal smart. But it's a decent barometer. Surely you're not saying there is no correlation! And it's a fact that less educated people vote less, plain and simple. I don't consider you to be very intelligent, and you don't bother to vote, so I'd day that's a reinforcement of the correlation.

[Ian]

I think as long as "the man in the street " has his views and opinions informed by a Tabloid press I wouldn't want democracy anyway .

And Ian , next election I will not vote and will still have every right to complain when the powers that Be FUCK ME OVER .

My point wasn't that if you vote you won't get fucked over. It's that if you don't vote your opinion really means nothing, certainly not to anyone campaining for office. At least make your opinion official, then gripe about getting fucked over by the powers that be. If you don't bother, you're just assuming it's guaranteed to happen anyway. That's either nihilistic or masochistic, I'm not sure which.

If you vote you won't get fucked over pure humor. Who cares if your opinion means nothing to anyone campaigning for office? It matters not who's campaigning for office, why would I care if they "care" about my opinion? When I don't vote I make my opinion official. I vote with the only vote that matters, my wallet.

Why thank you. Did you actually read?

[Ian]

Y'know what? Fuck this. Trying to explain the value of voting is about the dumbest debate I could get into; I shouldn't have to. Me done.

[sandinista]

I need no excuse to not vote. Voting is nothing but a smokescreen, an illusion to give the appearance of "democracy". I need no excuse. I don't claim its a sham, it is a sham. "Educated" does not always equate to "smart" BTW.

You're so sure it's never anything but an illusion and a sham, huh? That's the sign that you're not too bright - you have no doubts about your opinions. I'm not about to say the opposite, btw. Sometimes elections are a load of crap. Sometimes they're not.

I hereby quote the Doobie Brothers: "What a fool believes, the wise man has the power to reason away."

You're so convinced you're right, and you wonder why you don't get much respect around here.

No, educated does not equal smart. But it's a decent barometer. Surely you're not saying there is no correlation! And it's a fact that less educated people vote less, plain and simple. I don't consider you to be very intelligent, and you don't bother to vote, so I'd day that's a reinforcement of the correlation.

First a fucking doobie brothers quote followed by "I don't get much respect around here"...haha, classic. I can just see you sitting around thinking to yourself..."ooooh I have sooo much respect on an internet forum"...you should be fucking proud.

[sandinista]

Y'know what? Fuck this. Trying to explain the value of voting is about the dumbest debate I could get into; I shouldn't have to. Me done.

Sure is...you'll always lose.

[Robert_S]

"You may not have anyone to vote FOR in an election, but there's always someone to vote AGAINST."

Sure, I've vote even the lamest assed Dem against GWB ... against lesser evils than that, your third parties tending to be krank tanks, I'm not sure voting against is always feasible when you fear the one you are voting FOR in thiscase might actually end up worse.

Could either Gore or Kerry possibly have been worse than Bush? I doubt it. Could Vlad the Impaler? Not in my opinion.
$2.3 trillion in budget revenue lost to his tax cuts. The Iraq War. Reckless deregulation of the financial sector. And those are just the highlights. I voted against Bush more than I voted for the other guys, and I did so without much worry.

Thanks, Gawdzilla. Nice and succinct!

I know a few people who didn't vote for Gore because of that PMRC business Tipper was involved in a few years back.
I had to ask St. Frank for forgiveness.


But seriously, there are important things happening on a local level and a vote there can impact the quality of your life and the lives of those you see every day.

[Svartalf]

I think as long as "the man in the street " has his views and opinions informed by a Tabloid press I wouldn't want democracy anyway .

And Ian , next election I will not vote and will still have every right to complain when the powers that Be FUCK ME OVER .

My point wasn't that if you vote you won't get fucked over. It's that if you don't vote your opinion really means nothing, certainly not to anyone campaining for office. At least make your opinion official, then gripe about getting fucked over by the powers that be. If you don't bother, you're just assuming it's guaranteed to happen anyway. That's either nihilistic or masochistic, I'm not sure which.

If you vote you won't get fucked over pure humor. Who cares if your opinion means nothing to anyone campaigning for office? It matters not who's campaigning for office, why would I care if they "care" about my opinion? When I don't vote I make my opinion official. I vote with the only vote that matters, my wallet.

I largely sympathize with the Abstentionist Party platform precisely because I've voted a few times to many and been fucked over, no sunny sides, but the very officials I'd helped elect (not to mention the times when the other side won and my getting fucked over was part of the platform)

[Hermit]

I think as long as "the man in the street " has his views and opinions informed by a Tabloid press I wouldn't want democracy anyway .

And Ian , next election I will not vote and will still have every right to complain when the powers that Be FUCK ME OVER .

My point wasn't that if you vote you won't get fucked over. It's that if you don't vote your opinion really means nothing, certainly not to anyone campaining for office. At least make your opinion official, then gripe about getting fucked over by the powers that be. If you don't bother, you're just assuming it's guaranteed to happen anyway. That's either nihilistic or masochistic, I'm not sure which.

If you vote you won't get fucked over pure humor. Who cares if your opinion means nothing to anyone campaigning for office? It matters not who's campaigning for office, why would I care if they "care" about my opinion? When I don't vote I make my opinion official. I vote with the only vote that matters, my wallet.

I largely sympathize with the Abstentionist Party platform precisely because I've voted a few times to many and been fucked over, no sunny sides, but the very officials I'd helped elect (not to mention the times when the other side won and my getting fucked over was part of the platform)

Here in Australia there is very little difference at all between the Labor Party and the coalition of two conservative parties, but I think it is worth making an effort to vote, if only to have your single vote input among millions of other voters to elect the lesser of two evils that will govern you. As small as the difference between the two is, it is plainly discernible.

Sandinista, where did you get that strawman from? "If you vote you won't get fucked over"? Ian said nothing of the sort.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Sandinista, where did you get that strawman from? "If you vote you won't get fucked over"? Ian said nothing of the sort.

His posts make less sense than mine, so you might as well give up on the inquiries.

[FBM]

Topic split for voting derail discussion. Uhm...guys...I may have somehow lost a post or two in the process...

[Svartalf]

I think as long as "the man in the street " has his views and opinions informed by a Tabloid press I wouldn't want democracy anyway .

And Ian , next election I will not vote and will still have every right to complain when the powers that Be FUCK ME OVER .

My point wasn't that if you vote you won't get fucked over. It's that if you don't vote your opinion really means nothing, certainly not to anyone campaining for office. At least make your opinion official, then gripe about getting fucked over by the powers that be. If you don't bother, you're just assuming it's guaranteed to happen anyway. That's either nihilistic or masochistic, I'm not sure which.

If you vote you won't get fucked over pure humor. Who cares if your opinion means nothing to anyone campaigning for office? It matters not who's campaigning for office, why would I care if they "care" about my opinion? When I don't vote I make my opinion official. I vote with the only vote that matters, my wallet.

I largely sympathize with the Abstentionist Party platform precisely because I've voted a few times to many and been fucked over, no sunny sides, but the very officials I'd helped elect (not to mention the times when the other side won and my getting fucked over was part of the platform)

Here in Australia there is very little difference at all between the Labor Party and the coalition of two conservative parties, but I think it is worth making an effort to vote, if only to have your single vote input among millions of other voters to elect the lesser of two evils that will govern you. As small as the difference between the two is, it is plainly discernible.

Sandinista, where did you get that strawman from? "If you vote you won't get fucked over"? Ian said nothing of the sort.

Voting is no solution when the supposed lesser evil loses, or wins and lets you know that electoral promises bind only those who listen to them.

And the Ian quote that says "vote and you won't get fucked over" (paraphrase mine, just look up for the original) was indeed precisely what I saw myself in his post, which is why I so approved Sandinista's response.

[Warren Dew]

Could either Gore or Kerry possibly have been worse than Bush? I doubt it. Could Vlad the Impaler? Not in my opinion.
$2.3 trillion in budget revenue lost to his tax cuts. The Iraq War. Reckless deregulation of the financial sector. And those are just the highlights. I voted against Bush more than I voted for the other guys, and I did so without much worry.

In my estimation, Gore could definitely have been worse. Rather than increasing deficits $2.3 trillion over 8 years, he could have increased them by that amount over 2-4 years, as Obama's spending initiatives are on track to do. He could have continued the Iraq sanctions, which were killing more innocent Iraqis every year than the Iraq War did. He could have been just as reckless in deregulating the financial sector, since he was vice president under the worst of those deregulations, the Glass-Steagall repeal.

It can be very difficult to predict what a politician will do before he's in the relevant office.

[sandinista]

Sandinista, where did you get that strawman from? "If you vote you won't get fucked over"? Ian said nothing of the sort.

His posts make less sense than mine, so you might as well give up on the inquiries.

How so? Generally pretty sensible I figure. What makes no sense?