27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

[Jason]

Yeah. The fucking Toronto Star - fabulous source. A pack of populist fucking morons.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

Yeah, but it's pretty silly to make comparisons.

Oh, I'm not really making comparisons so much. But it seems from that list that where guns aren't available, knives will be used in these attacks.

Oh, and also that this is not a new phenomenon, or an American phenomenon.

Ideed. The number cleaver/knife attacks in China is quite shocking.

From this list I added up the deaths and injuries from guns vs deaths and injuries from other modes of attack over the last 50 years or so (from Feb 1960). I didn't include military/paramilitary attacks or an attack where guns and blades were both used (Chinese woman armed with a shotgun and garden shears):-

Gun deaths - 109
Gun injuries - 130

Death by other means - 106
Injuries by other means - 458

Feel free to infer what you like from these (sketchy) figures, but to me they suggest that if guns are not available then an assailant will just find other means of carrying out an attack.

[JimC]

Didn't he use a Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle? That's not exactly easily concealable. I wonder if this'll prompt the re-banning of assault weapons?

One can only hope...

[Seabass]

At least an honest gun freak, Mozg, has stated clearly, earlier in the thread, that these sort of massacres are a price she happily pays to own her guns...

My precious, my preciousssss.

Before we get all self righteous and holier than thou, I would like to point out that all nations and all people who allow for some level of civilian gun ownership have done the same sort of moral calculus and have similarly concluded that a certain level of carnage is acceptable. Different countries and different people may differ in where they choose to draw the line on which sort of firearms should be allowed and which shouldn't, and who should be allowed to own them, but this debate still boils down to balancing freedom vs. safety. Even Blinder Groper, paragon of moral righteousness, patron saint of all that is good and holy in the world, opines that rifles and shotguns should be legal despite the fact that many people die by rifle and shotgun.

Gun control isn't a binary issue. There's a bell curve, and most of us will fit somewhere near the fat middle, and all this divisiveness and tribalism only makes the situation worse.

[Cormac]

People don't understand that in an environment like a school a knife can be every bit as lethal as a gun. Especially in the hands of someone who has a little training.


This is not an argument either way. While a guy with a gun in hand, safety off could deal with a knife wielding maniac, if the gun was metered or the opponent unarmed, the assailant has a good chance of incapacitating any defender.

What utter nonsense. Yes, a knife can kill, but not a large number in a small time. That is the critical issue. Ready access to highly efficient, easily concealable killing tools by nutters will produce the large scale massacres again and again.

At least an honest gun freak, Mozg, has stated clearly, earlier in the thread, that these sort of massacres are a price she happily pays to own her guns...

My precious, my preciousssss.

1. I don't own a gun. (I think I would like to, but what I could get is severely restricted, which, to be honest, doesn't bother me all that much).
2. Knives have been used in a significant number of these attacks. In some cases, with large numbers of fatalities.

I have trained to fight with knives, although it was many years ago. I never carry weapons of any nature. I know exactly how lethal a knife can be, especially in confined quarters like a school building.

[Seth]

Didn't he use a Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle? That's not exactly easily concealable. I wonder if this'll prompt the re-banning of assault weapons?

No. He evidently stole one from his mother as well as a SIG and a Glock handgun, but he left the rifle in his vehicle and did not take it in to the school, probably because it WAS NOT concealable and he felt he couldn't get past the foyer if he had it with him. The pistols he was able to conceal, but that begs the question of why the office staff buzzed in someone wearing a "military" uniform and a ballistic vest.

[Seth]

Seth is mentally deranged and a total shit head to boot. Hard to top really.

Since this attack has been reported, I'll wait a bit for Rum to be given a 24 hour time out. If that doesn't happen soon however, I'll retaliate in kind.

[klr]

Seth is mentally deranged and a total shit head to boot. Hard to top really.

Since this attack has been reported, I'll wait a bit for Rum to be given a 24 hour time out. If that doesn't happen soon however, I'll retaliate in kind.

On this forum, applying the rules is staff business, not yours. You don't get to take the law into your own hands ...

[Seth]

Seth is mentally deranged and a total shit head to boot. Hard to top really.

Since this attack has been reported, I'll wait a bit for Rum to be given a 24 hour time out. If that doesn't happen soon however, I'll retaliate in kind.

On this forum, applying the rules is staff business, not yours. You don't get to take the law into your own hands ...

I got a 24 hour time out for a similar insult, so to be fair and consistent you must give Rum a timeout as well, particularly because he posted no other content than the attack, otherwise you will join the ranks of corrupt fuckwit moderators like the ones at RatSkep.

Your choice.

[aspire1670]

Didn't he use a Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle? That's not exactly easily concealable. I wonder if this'll prompt the re-banning of assault weapons?

No. He evidently stole one from his mother as well as a SIG and a Glock handgun, but he left the rifle in his vehicle and did not take it in to the school, probably because it WAS NOT concealable and he felt he couldn't get past the foyer if he had it with him. The pistols he was able to conceal, but that begs the question of why the office staff buzzed in someone wearing a "military" uniform and a ballistic vest.

I know your life has been ful of fail. Seth: you failed in your brief stints as a cop and as a police despatcher; you failed as a rancher and generally you life has not amounted to a row of beans; but even you must have read that the assailant forced his way into the school. Nice attempt at victim blaming though.

[aspire1670]

Seth is mentally deranged and a total shit head to boot. Hard to top really.

Since this attack has been reported, I'll wait a bit for Rum to be given a 24 hour time out. If that doesn't happen soon however, I'll retaliate in kind.

On this forum, applying the rules is staff business, not yours. You don't get to take the law into your own hands ...

I got a 24 hour time out for a similar insult, so to be fair and consistent you must give Rum a timeout as well, particularly because he posted no other content than the attack, otherwise you will join the ranks of corrupt fuckwit moderators like the ones at RatSkep.

Your choice.

LOL at the internet blowhard who thinks he controls the game. Send for the waambulance.

[Seth]

Yeah, but it's pretty silly to make comparisons.

Oh, I'm not really making comparisons so much. But it seems from that list that where guns aren't available, knives will be used in these attacks.

Oh, and also that this is not a new phenomenon, or an American phenomenon.

Ideed. The number cleaver/knife attacks in China is quite shocking.

From this list I added up the deaths and injuries from guns vs deaths and injuries from other modes of attack over the last 50 years or so (from Feb 1960). I didn't include military/paramilitary attacks or an attack where guns and blades were both used (Chinese woman armed with a shotgun and garden shears):-

Gun deaths - 109
Gun injuries - 130

Death by other means - 106
Injuries by other means - 458

Feel free to infer what you like from these (sketchy) figures, but to me they suggest that if guns are not available then an assailant will just find other means of carrying out an attack.

I believe I saw a report yesterday of 22 kids injured by a knife-wielding attacker in China.

[Seth]

Seth is mentally deranged and a total shit head to boot. Hard to top really.

Since this attack has been reported, I'll wait a bit for Rum to be given a 24 hour time out. If that doesn't happen soon however, I'll retaliate in kind.

On this forum, applying the rules is staff business, not yours. You don't get to take the law into your own hands ...

I got a 24 hour time out for a similar insult, so to be fair and consistent you must give Rum a timeout as well, particularly because he posted no other content than the attack, otherwise you will join the ranks of corrupt fuckwit moderators like the ones at RatSkep.

Your choice.

LOL at the internet blowhard who thinks he controls the game. Send for the waambulance.

Reported.

[klr]

Seth is mentally deranged and a total shit head to boot. Hard to top really.

Since this attack has been reported, I'll wait a bit for Rum to be given a 24 hour time out. If that doesn't happen soon however, I'll retaliate in kind.

On this forum, applying the rules is staff business, not yours. You don't get to take the law into your own hands ...

I got a 24 hour time out for a similar insult, so to be fair and consistent you must give Rum a timeout as well, particularly because he posted no other content than the attack, otherwise you will join the ranks of corrupt fuckwit moderators like the ones at RatSkep.

Your choice.

Thank for insulting my integrity, and other things besides. It's almost worth a report in itself, although for that to happen I'd have to take it seriously.

As you doubtless know, prior behaviour can be taken into account when judging a case, especially when there happens to be a long history with a a given poster. Also, threatening in advance to break the rules if decisions don't go your way is not likely to impress.

[Seth]

Didn't he use a Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle? That's not exactly easily concealable. I wonder if this'll prompt the re-banning of assault weapons?

No. He evidently stole one from his mother as well as a SIG and a Glock handgun, but he left the rifle in his vehicle and did not take it in to the school, probably because it WAS NOT concealable and he felt he couldn't get past the foyer if he had it with him. The pistols he was able to conceal, but that begs the question of why the office staff buzzed in someone wearing a "military" uniform and a ballistic vest.

I know your life has been ful of fail. Seth: you failed in your brief stints as a cop and as a police despatcher; you failed as a rancher and generally you life has not amounted to a row of beans; but even you must have read that the assailant forced his way into the school. Nice attempt at victim blaming though.

I'll wait for your suspension too before I reply as I ought to your false allegations and calumnies.

And no, I had not seen that in the coverage so far. But that begs the question of how he could "force his way" into the school. This indicates a gross and incompetent failure on the part of the staff, administration and school board in not providing proper security infrastructure in the school.