Unarmed teen shooting: Is Florida law to blame?

[Warren Dew]

One might argue that the SYG law passed in 2005 was the cause for the jump but given that the number of justifiable homicides only increased from 12 to 35 (on average) that would be a specious argument at best. A more probable cause was the deteriorating economy.

The economy is a likely answer, but it's possible that some of the additional murders were people who mistakenly thought "stand your ground" allowed them to shoot in situations where it wasn't self defense. If so, the decline since 2007 would seem to indicate that people are figuring out that the law doesn't go that far.

[Seabass]

In a gated community, which is private and not public property, Zimmerman had every right to approach non-resident Traynor and question why he was there. No different than questioning a suspicious person in an apartment building or dorm. I'm sure every college dorm has advised residents to be weary of strangers in the building.

Besides, let's face the obvious.Young Black men have a well deserved reputation for criminal behavior based on statistics and facts. Oh, and adopting a criminally inspired attire and culture (based on facebook evidence) is not how a respectable and law abiding citizens should present themselves. When Blacks as a group start behaving themselves better, then Blacks as a group will be treated better and under less suspicion.

Oh, stop poisoning the well with your racist bullshit.

This kid went out to buy candy and iced tea for fucks sake. Candy and iced tea, and now he's DEAD. What the fuck do other "young black men" have to do with this particular young black man? And what the fuck does the hoodie have to do with it? What the fuck? Black kids can't wear hoodies now without getting shot? I often wear a hoodie when I go out to jog in the morning. Maybe someone should shoot me dead.

Fact is, had Zimmerman not been there with his gun and his paranoia, Trayvon would have continued his walk home in peace, with his candy and tea, and finished watching the game with his family.

How was Zimmerman paranoid? Traynor was a violent thug as proved by his actions.I wouldn't be surprised if Traynor was casing houses to rob as was suggested, because that is the type of individual that attacks the neighborhood watch instead of calmly talking. This was private property and Traynor had no right to be there except as a guest.

Baseless assertions, logical fallacies, non sequiturs. At this point, I'm just annoyed at myself for having wasted time responding to you.

[Coito ergo sum]

When compared with a murder rate ranging from 883 to 1201 per year over the last decade, even a tripling of the justifiable homicide rate from 12 to 35 a year does not seem very significant, let alone insane, to me.

But it would be significant, to you, if the next victim was you or your son, or father, etc.
But so long as it's someone else, why should you worry?

I like Obama's reaction, because he clearly has the intelligence to see past that.

The same emotional argument can be made in reverse. The next victim of over-strict gun laws might be an innocent person who would have survived a brutal attack, had the victim been armed. That victim may be you or your son, father, etc. But, so long as it's someone else, why should you worry?

[Tyrannical]

Deaths Nearly Triple Since “Stand Your Ground” Enacted
It's fairly insane.

When compared with a murder rate ranging from 883 to 1201 per year over the last decade, even a tripling of the justifiable homicide rate from 12 to 35 a year does not seem very significant, let alone insane, to me.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

An increase in the justifiable homicide rate is a good thing, that means honest law abiding citizens are defending themselves instead of becoming a victim.

[Tyrannical]

I saw some crime statistics posted earlier, but I think too many people don't realize the extent of the ethnic skewing.

This is from the State of Connecticut General Assembly web site; aka the State Legislature.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0008.htm

CRIME RATE AND CONVICTION RATES BROKEN DOWN BY RACE

By: George Coppolo, Chief Attorney

Kevin McCarthy, Principal Analyst

You asked for Connecticut's crime rate broken down by the race of the offender and victim, and the racial breakdown of the offenders who have been convicted for a third strike in California?

SUMMARY

Offender Rate

Based on information contained in the Uniform Crime Reports from 2000 to 2004, and in the U.S. Census Bureau's Population Estimates Program (1/4/08), we were able to prepare estimates on the arrest rates for certain crimes broken down by race. This data indicates that the arrest rate for blacks for murder was 10 to 15 times as high as for whites, five to six times the rate for whites for sexual assault, eight to nine times as high for robbery, four to five times as high for aggravated assault, and between two to three times as high for burglary.

ncarceration Rates

We did not find any incarceration rates for Connecticut prepared by any Connecticut agency or organization. But we were able to find relevant information for 2005 prepared by an organization called the Sentencing Project, a Washington D.C. based national non-profit organization involved in research and advocacy on criminal justice policy issues, and for 2006 from the U.S. Department of Justice (U.S. Department of Justice Office of Justice Programs Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin Prisoners in 2006 December 2007, NCJ 219416.)

According to the Sentencing Project's website, the rate of incarceration for white Connecticut residents in 2005 was 211 per 100,000 people; for black residents it was 2,532 per 100,000. The Sentencing Project reports that the national incarceration rate for whites in 2005 was 412 per 100,000, and the rate for blacks was 2,290 per 100,000 people. http://www.sentencingproject.org/Admin/ ... nicity.pdf

Also according to the Sentencing Project's web site, in seven states (Iowa, Vermont, New Jersey, Connecticut, Wisconsin, North Dakota, and South Dakota) the black to white incarceration ratio is greater than 10 to one. The national rate is 5.6 to one and the ratios range from 13.6 to one for Iowa to just under two to one in Hawaii. Connecticut's rate is about 12 to 1. The Project concluded that Connecticut's black to white ratio is so high because Connecticut's rate of white incarceration is very low whereas its rate for black incarceration is a little above the national average.

According to Justice Department data, in 2006 black men were being incarcerated at a rate of 3,042 per 100,000. This data also indicated that

1. about one in every 33 black men was a sentenced prisoner and the rate for white men was about one in every 205, for Hispanic men about one in every 79; and

2. black men represented the largest proportion of sentenced male inmates at yearend 2006 (38%); white men made up 34%; and Hispanic men, 21%.

[DaveD]

I don't think that shows what you think it shows.

[FBM]

It's meaningless because it can be interpreted so variously. It can either show that more blacks are criminals or that the system is skewed to convict and incarcerate them (overwhelmingly) more often than they would a white person accused of the same crime. How you interpret it seems to be largely a function of pre-existing bias. Useless data, IMO.

[DaveD]

Precisely.

[FBM]

Praise Gwod and wear a hoodie: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/26/justi ... ?hpt=hp_t3

[Tyrannical]

It's meaningless because it can be interpreted so variously. It can either show that more blacks are criminals or that the system is skewed to convict and incarcerate them (overwhelmingly) more often than they would a white person accused of the same crime. How you interpret it seems to be largely a function of pre-existing bias. Useless data, IMO.

Victimization stats which includes crimes regardless if the culprit was caught have witness / camera evidence showing a similar conviction versus committal rate between races. Meaning the stats mean exactly what I think they mean.

Now I'm off to practice some racial harmony in Mass Effect 3..........

[Ronja]

It's meaningless because it can be interpreted so variously. It can either show that more blacks are criminals or that the system is skewed to convict and incarcerate them (overwhelmingly) more often than they would a white person accused of the same crime. How you interpret it seems to be largely a function of pre-existing bias. Useless data, IMO.

.

BTW, I wear a hoodie this time a year, when a fleece is already too warm.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's meaningless because it can be interpreted so variously. It can either show that more blacks are criminals or that the system is skewed to convict and incarcerate them (overwhelmingly) more often than they would a white person accused of the same crime. How you interpret it seems to be largely a function of pre-existing bias. Useless data, IMO.

.

BTW, I wear a hoodie this time a year, when a fleece is already too warm.

Heck, I wear a hoodie. And I'm not scary or dangerous at all.

[Ronja]

.

[JimC]

I am not going to wear a Scottish crow, the dry cleaning bills would be horrendous...

[Clinton Huxley]

I am not going to wear a Scottish crow, the dry cleaning bills would be horrendous...

Don't talk to me about crows, the damned be-winged buggers take delight in dropping precision munitions on me damned carriage.