Unarmed teen shooting: Is Florida law to blame?

[kiki5711]

Oh, no, I hope he does not get the death penalty, which he probably won't, I hope he suffers and rots in prison as long as he will last which I think will not be long.

[Warren Dew]

when I was in high school, had a very thick accent, and was picked on by the "in American girl" crowd. For what???? Just because I was a foreigner!

When I was in school, I was picked on for being a "Jap" because I was half Chinese. I ignored it, because my mother taught me early the adage that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". Sounds like more people need to take that to heart.

And in this case, Zimmerman isn't one of the gap-toothed hillbillies who give you a hard time.

Why does it make a difference whether he's a hillbilly or hispanic? Do southern white people not have the same rights to self defense as anyone else any more?

I'd call following people around "giving them a hard time". The point is that being given a hard time does not mean one can turn around and beat them up.

[mistermack]

I'd call following people around "giving them a hard time". The point is that being given a hard time does not mean one can turn around and beat them up.

Your reasoning is absolutely ludicrous.

The white guy has the right to self defence, even as far as following and killing the black kid.
Doesn't the black kid have any right to self defence?

All the evidence points to the black kid being scared, of being stalked by some loony. ( and he obviously had good reason ). All the evidence points to the white guy NOT being scared. He had a gun, and followed his victim in the dark.

You say that the kid had no right to "turn around and beat them up", and yet the white guy had the right to kill the kid. Just a little bit selective. And ludicrous.

[Warren Dew]

Yes, mistermack, I think being followed is different from lying on the ground being punched out.

[mistermack]

Yes, mistermack, I think being followed is different from lying on the ground being punched out.

Different but also the same, if both cause you to fear for your life.

Your reasoning is bollocks. The black kid was OBVIOUSLY right to be in fear, as PROVED by events.
The white guy claims to have been in fear, based on the fact that he was losing a fight that he provoked.

That gives any american the right to carry a gun, start a fight, and pull it out and kill his opponent, if he's losing.

As you've probably got tens of thousands of fights happening every day in America, you're likely to get an awful lot more killings now.

Nice country! You're welcome to it.

[maiforpeace]

Yes, mistermack, I think being followed is different from lying on the ground being punched out.

Different but also the same, if both cause you to fear for your life.

Your reasoning is bollocks. The black kid was OBVIOUSLY right to be in fear, as PROVED by events.
The white guy claims to have been in fear, based on the fact that he was losing a fight that he provoked.

That gives any american the right to carry a gun, start a fight, and pull it out and kill his opponent, if he's losing.

As you've probably got tens of thousands of fights happening every day in America, you're likely to get an awful lot more killings now.

Nice country! You're welcome to it.

Why do you, and others always feel the need to say this when all arguments are exhausted...it's obvious, otherwise you wouldn't be where you are!

I hope most people like the country they are living in, otherwise I'd feel badly for them.

Also, we are also a much bigger country than yours, and our gun laws are not uniform...they vary from state to state.

[mistermack]

Nice country! You're welcome to it.

Why do you, and others always feel the need to say this when all arguments are exhausted...it's obvious, otherwise you wouldn't be where you are!

I hope most people like the country they are living in, otherwise I'd feel badly for them.

Also, we are also a much bigger country than yours, and our gun laws are not uniform...they vary from state to state.

There's loads wrong with my country, and I'm more than happy to slag it off.
Anyway, life chose the UK for me, I didn't choose IT.
I'm stuck with it for family and friends reasons.

[tattuchu]

When I was in school, I was picked on for being a "Jap" because I was half Chinese.

I didn't know you're half Chinese, Warren. Interesting that you were called a Jap, and yet you're actually Chinese. Usually it's the other way around- anyone who is Asian is called Chinese, or chink. It annoys the hell out of me. We have a lot of Vietnamese at work, for instance, and so many of my co-workers refer to them as Chinese (or chinks). It doesn't matter how many times you correct them. They don't care. "Same thing," they say.
"Look, if you're going to insult someone," I respond, "at least do it correctly. They're gooks, if you must be vulgar. Chink is Chinese, which they are not. And nip is Japanese."
But to a lot of people, anyone Asian is a chink or a Chinaman. I had a friend at work who was Cambodian and his own girlfriend, and mother of his kids, referred to him as Chinese

[tattuchu]

Anyway, my opinion of this whole thing is changing as new details are presented. I still think Zimmerman was at fault for stalking, accosting, confronting, and initiating a conflict with this kid. But it sounds like he was getting the shit beat out of him and, after calling fruitlessly for help, only shot the kid as a last resort. Just read a news article today that stated he couldn't stop crying afterward, so he was very shaken up over it. If this is true, then this paints a slightly different picture. I still think it's Zimmerman's fault, or at least that the whole thing could have been easily avoided if he hadn't acted so stupidly. But I dunno. Things aren't so black and white anymore. I'm also annoyed that the photo being posted in the news stories I've read is not a recent shot, and makes the boy look much younger and less able to hold his own in a fight than he actually was. I don't enjoy being deceived and manipulated.

[maiforpeace]

When I was in school, I was picked on for being a "Jap" because I was half Chinese.

I didn't know you're half Chinese, Warren. Interesting that you were called a Jap, and yet you're actually Chinese. Usually it's the other way around- anyone who is Asian is called Chinese, or chink. It annoys the hell out of me. We have a lot of Vietnamese at work, for instance, and so many of my co-workers refer to them as Chinese (or chinks). It doesn't matter how many times you correct them. They don't care. "Same thing," they say.
"Look, if you're going to insult someone," I respond, "at least do it correctly. They're gooks, if you must be vulgar. Chink is Chinese, which they are not. And nip is Japanese."
But to a lot of people, anyone Asian is a chink or a Chinaman. I had a friend at work who was Cambodian and his own girlfriend, and mother of his kids, referred to him as Chinese

Same thing happened to me Tatt...he was called a Jap because there was still lots of anti-Japanese sentiment after WW2. At the time Warren and I were growing up, there were no Vietnamese or Cambodians to speak of in the US. The Vietnam War was what changed that, and that was only later in the sixties.

I was called 'Jap' too growing up, I remember it distinctly too, I was five years old. To many at that time all Asians looked alike, people weren't able to distinguish Chinese from Japanese or Korean. We were all just slant-eyed and yellow.

However, my mother wasn't as civilized as Warren's, when it came to her lessons to me about how to handle being called a 'Jap'. Or, maybe she felt she had more license to encourage me this way since she was a pure Kraut, but she told me to go back and call the kids who called me a Jap, "white as fish bellies".

[tattuchu]

I thought you were younger than me, Mai? But I know what you mean about WWII prejudice, although it puzzled me as a kid. See, there was an elderly German woman who lived on our street. She was terrified everyone would hate her because of the war. It seemed silly to me at the time. WWII was ancient history. Why would anyone give a shit that she was German? And besides, Germans were so silly and lovable*, so how could anyone hate Germans anyway?

*My exposure to Germans and WWII being limited at that time to watching Hogan's Heroes.

[maiforpeace]

Anyway, my opinion of this whole thing is changing as new details are presented. I still think Zimmerman was at fault for stalking, accosting, confronting, and initiating a conflict with this kid. But it sounds like he was getting the shit beat out of him and, after calling fruitlessly for help, only shot the kid as a last resort. Just read a news article today that stated he couldn't stop crying afterward, so he was very shaken up over it. If this is true, then this paints a slightly different picture. I still think it's Zimmerman's fault, or at least that the whole thing could have been easily avoided if he hadn't acted so stupidly. But I dunno. Things aren't so black and white anymore. I'm also annoyed that the photo being posted in the news stories I've read is not a recent shot, and makes the boy look much younger and less able to hold his own in a fight than he actually was. I don't enjoy being deceived and manipulated.

It's a hot topic. If you don't want to be manipulated, just suspend judgment until the whole thing is investigated thoroughly. Otherwise, you will get every version including many wildly conflicting stories about it, since it is such a hot topic...it's the nature of the media beast.

I thought you were younger than me, Mai?

I'm older than you Tatt...I'm 55. Aren't you in your forties?

[tattuchu]

Forty-nine next month

[Tyrannical]

In a gated community, which is private and not public property, Zimmerman had every right to approach non-resident Traynor and question why he was there. No different than questioning a suspicious person in an apartment building or dorm. I'm sure every college dorm has advised residents to be weary of strangers in the building.

Besides, let's face the obvious.Young Black men have a well deserved reputation for criminal behavior based on statistics and facts. Oh, and adopting a criminally inspired attire and culture (based on facebook evidence) is not how a respectable and law abiding citizens should present themselves. When Blacks as a group start behaving themselves better, then Blacks as a group will be treated better and under less suspicion.

[Seabass]

In a gated community, which is private and not public property, Zimmerman had every right to approach non-resident Traynor and question why he was there. No different than questioning a suspicious person in an apartment building or dorm. I'm sure every college dorm has advised residents to be weary of strangers in the building.

Besides, let's face the obvious.Young Black men have a well deserved reputation for criminal behavior based on statistics and facts. Oh, and adopting a criminally inspired attire and culture (based on facebook evidence) is not how a respectable and law abiding citizens should present themselves. When Blacks as a group start behaving themselves better, then Blacks as a group will be treated better and under less suspicion.

Oh, stop poisoning the well with your racist bullshit.

This kid went out to buy candy and iced tea for fucks sake. Candy and iced tea, and now he's DEAD. What the fuck do other "young black men" have to do with this particular young black man? And what the fuck does the hoodie have to do with it? What the fuck? Black kids can't wear hoodies now without getting shot? I often wear a hoodie when I go out to jog in the morning. Maybe someone should shoot me dead.

Fact is, had Zimmerman not been there with his gun and his paranoia, Trayvon would have continued his walk home in peace, with his candy and tea, and finished watching the game with his family.