Found not guilty, then judge says he may be guilty

[MrJonno]

There it is. Absolute incontrovertible proof that Jonno is a Marxist.

Thats about as much as insult as saying you think you are independent

[Cormac]

What is the point in the young buying a house if the state will just confiscate it. Better not to, to blow all your cash, and get on the housing list, and let the state (I.e. Sucker taxpayers) provide your accommodation.

It's a very good question, house ownership is not the norm in most of Europe and rents are sensible (ie a lot less than mortgages unlike in the UK where a mortgage is normally the cheaper option). It almost certainly would be better foir the economy is everyone did blow their cash instead of locking it up in unproductive bricks. The entire economic recession we are in is only partly due to banks, the main cause is people trying to make money out of bricks instead of actually doing something productive like working

That is simplistic, populist, wrong, and simply not related to your thesis at all. Because property speculators are not te same cohort at all as your bete noir - the worker who has saved all his life to purchase his home.

And, incidentally, the economic effect of a culture of no saving and immediate spending is rampant inflation.

A renting culture is neither better nor worse than an ownership culture.

I have to disagree here. From the social and economic mobility perspective a renting culture is MUCH better than an owning culture because it leaves the workforce MUCH more free to relocate to where the jobs/work are. One of the reasons we have so many people on welfare and food stamps here is because they bought homes they could not afford and refuse to pick up and go somewhere there's work...because they don't want to dig onions...so we let illegal border crossers in to do the jobs that the now-homeless Americans refuse to do because they are too lazy to do them, or move to where there is work.

Well, what I said doesn't preclude this. In my view, it depends on what you view as "better", and then on the prevailing circumstances - and these are in constant flux.

[Coito ergo sum]

3) People who grew up in the 40's and 50's had it easy, no wars to fight in (no Vietnam here), permanent work, piss cheap education and housing and we are all paying for it now. House prices are still 8-10 times average wages compared to 3 times through most of last century. They are that high because these people are objected to every possible attempt to building more houses as it would reduce the value of their own

The only thing standing in the way of building new houses is the government. If the prices are that high where you are, there are construction guys champing at the bit to build. Just remove the shackles, and they'll build and sell on the open market.

And people in the 40s didn't have a war? There was a little something called, ohhhh..... World War 2 that lasted until 1945 and took a fair bit of time to recover from, LOL. The French had Vietnam throughout the 1950s, maybe not the Brits, but the Brits were still fighting around the world to preserve bits and pieces of their Empire. It just didn't make much news back then, because it involved the darkies.

[Clinton Huxley]

I'm sure there was a war in Korea in the 50s too. I'll ask FBM about, he'll know....

[MrJonno]

And people in the 40s didn't have a war? There was a little something called, ohhhh..... World War 2 that lasted until 1945 and took a fair bit of time to recover from, LOL. The French had Vietnam throughout the 1950s, maybe not the Brits, but the Brits were still fighting around the world to preserve bits and pieces of their Empire. It just didn't make much news back then, because it involved the darkies.

Would have have to be 86 to have served in WW2 now (and probably male), there arent too many of them around these days. The relative numbers involved in other conflicts is tiny since then. You're typical 65-75 year old is going to know about as much about war as an 18 year playing Battlefield 4 on his playstation

[laklak]

How soon we forget, eh?

[Coito ergo sum]

I'm sure there was a war in Korea in the 50s too. I'll ask FBM about, he'll know....

There was a War in Vietnam in the 50s, too, but it doesn't count cuz it wasn't a Merkin war then, which means it was fought with only peaceful, kind, caring and compassionate means, in an eminently reasonable fashion, and only for the best of reasons.

Then there was the Algerian War involving the Algerians and the Frogs, I mean French...., the Mau Mau v Brits in Kenya

Didn't the Brits fight in India in the 1940s, and 50s too? And, Malaya? Cypruss? Egypt (Suez Crisis)? Ireland? Indonesia? Iran?

[Clinton Huxley]

We definitely never fought in Cypruss.

[laklak]

My grandmum-in-law is 89 now, and was a WAAF during the Big One. She bought her council bungalow 10 years ago and lives on a government pension. She should probably just lie down and die, make room for the youngsters.

[MrJonno]

I'm sure there was a war in Korea in the 50s too. I'll ask FBM about, he'll know....

There was a War in Vietnam in the 50s, too, but it doesn't count cuz it wasn't a Merkin war then, which means it was fought with only peaceful, kind, caring and compassionate means, in an eminently reasonable fashion, and only for the best of reasons.

Then there was the Algerian War involving the Algerians and the Frogs, I mean French...., the Mau Mau v Brits in Kenya

Didn't the Brits fight in India in the 1940s, and 50s too? And, Malaya? Cypruss? Egypt (Suez Crisis)? Ireland? Indonesia? Iran?

None of them affected the general population and no the military are not part of the general population. They are tiny % of the population living who come generally come from unemployment blackspots. You can fit the entire British armed forces in a single sports stadium.

[Cormac]

Mr Jonno, as I've made these points and more in this thread, I would appreciate it if you would respond to the points I raised.

[MrJonno]

Which points,

The elderly are demanding residential care at £30-£35k a year AND want to keep their houses. Fact
They have not paid enough taxes to even remotely cover that Fact
The pension is not the issue, they have paid for that its not a great deal but fairs fairs
Very few pensioners are veterans ( I have a lot more sympathy for those who are)
The baby boomers grew up in conditions of steady work and low housing costs fact

Tax payers money should go to those who need not deserve, if someone is ill or hungry they have a clear need. Deserve is an entirely subject matter

Any other points

[Jason]

Brave Sir MrJonno..

[Jason]

The elderly are demanding residential care at £30-£35k a year AND want to keep their houses. Fact

How many pensioners require residential nursing homecare? You make it sound like an epidemic among the elderly.

They have not paid enough taxes to even remotely cover that Fact

Like balls they haven't. They worked for 40-45 years of their lives paying their portion which collected compound interest all the while. Have you done the math accounting for inflation and compound interest?

The pension is not the issue, they have paid for that its not a great deal but fairs fairs

Then what is the facking issue? That you cannot confiscate their property because they're old?

Very few pensioners are veterans ( I have a lot more sympathy for those who are)

How is that relevant?

The baby boomers grew up in conditions of steady work and low housing costs fact

Even if that's true, what does it matter? I think you're just fluffing up your post.

Tax payers money should go to those who need not deserve, if someone is ill or hungry they have a clear need. Deserve is an entirely subject matter

It's their fucking money. What part of that are you still not understanding?

Any other points

Yes, but I don't want to be rude. Yet.

[Cormac]

Which points,

The elderly are demanding residential care at £30-£35k a year AND want to keep their houses. Fact
They have not paid enough taxes to even remotely cover that Fact
The pension is not the issue, they have paid for that its not a great deal but fairs fairs
Very few pensioners are veterans ( I have a lot more sympathy for those who are)
The baby boomers grew up in conditions of steady work and low housing costs fact

Tax payers money should go to those who need not deserve, if someone is ill or hungry they have a clear need. Deserve is an entirely subject matter

Any other points

Baby boomers did not grow up with steady work. Have a look at my posts.