The Coronavirus Thread

[Brian Peacock]

Trump's pushing of an unproven treatment demonstrates the problems of relying on opinion over medical science. We all know how unique and deadly this thing is, and we'd all like a life-saving treatment to be available to people who might need it, but these things can't be wished into existence. Similarly, I don't think a leader should feel like they should take a bet on something like this or be bounced into making a political calculation for appearances or for votes - as I feel Trump has here. Some things are more important than votes and poll ratings.

As for the LARPing Qanonistas, "Meh."

All those other countries (not being run by Trump) who are using the treatment are somehow uninteresting to you?

Trump likes it, so there are many people who will HAVE to hate it.

You're trying to make this a culture wars issue, and it just isn't. I'm not qualifying my point of view by my dislike of Trump - you're doing that all on your own. I've already said that the anti-malarials might have some benefit for some people in some circumstances, and sure, I think he was too eager to be seen as the bringer of good news on the flimsiest of evidence and so gave the impression that these drugs were a miraculous general prophylaxis and/or cure, but my personal take is that this shows how unfounded opinions and magical thinking can encourage desperate people to resort to the kinds of quackery and snake oil that invariably does them more harm than good.

[JimC]

Plus a large research study showing an increase in Covid-19 death rates for those taking it...

[pErvinalia]

The WHO has halted all tests of it. But the WHO is an arm of the CCP...

[Hermit]

Why do you always refer to the Netherlands data which has been admitted by the RIVM as not accurate due to reporting and recording.

I provided quotes with links from the RIVM. If you can find a link where the RIVM contradicts itself, provide it. Thank you.

My personal experience in collecting global and national data has made me very sceptical.

No links then. You got nothing.

I have plenty but I dont know how good your Dutch is.
Here is an example of a very long article in de Volkskrant (A very liberal quality paper) which I read last month.

Luisteren we in de coronacrisis niet naar een te klein groepje deskundigen?
"Are we not in the corona crisis listening to a too small group of experts".

There are plenty of this type of sceptical articles to be read here. Maybe in Australia people accept the kool aid given out by the government far more easily. Here it has never been the case hence our political system which allows more freedom of expression.

BTW it mentions how the RIVM did contradict itself.

The RIVM stated that the death rate is higher than the official count indicates, and I provided a link to where the RIVM explains why it knows it to be so. I put the article you linked to through Google translate. It reports on government reluctance to close schools down outside Brabant. It discusses the government's (including the RIVM's) intention to let herd immunity do its job. The general tenor of the article was that the government did too little too late. It describes the disconnect between what needs to be done and what has been done. There is no single comment about statistics. No mention at all. Not whether they are overstated, understated or accurate. You had me reading the entire article for nothing. That's because you got nothing to support your assertions with. If you had anything to support them, you would have linked to it by now.

[Cunt]

It's easy to blame Trump, even when Democrats seem to be handling the crisis worse in almost every way.

Found a quote which will let you keep believing it's Republicans that are the problem.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN22X14I

Republican counties report a higher death rate in Delaware, Nebraska and South Dakota, where the disease has raced through meatpacking plants. Republican counties have been harder hit in Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota and Texas, where rates are well below the national average.

[Hermit]

It's easy to blame Trump, even when Democrats seem to be handling the crisis worse in almost every way.

Found a quote which will let you keep believing it's Republicans that are the problem.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN22X14I

Republican counties report a higher death rate in Delaware, Nebraska and South Dakota, where the disease has raced through meatpacking plants. Republican counties have been harder hit in Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota and Texas, where rates are well below the national average.

From the article:

The uneven impact reflects the disproportionate toll the infectious disease has taken in densely packed Democratic-voting cities like New York. Rural areas and far-flung suburbs that typically back Republicans have not seen as direct an impact.

So death rates are higher in more densely packed populations than less densely packed ones. Whaddya know?

[Cunt]

So death rates are higher in more densely packed populations than less densely packed ones. Whaddya know?

I'm still confused about Japan...I always imagined it as densely packed. I guess it must be all farmers.

[Hermit]

So death rates are higher in more densely packed populations than less densely packed ones. Whaddya know?

I'm still confused about Japan...I always imagined it as densely packed. I guess it must be all farmers.

Asian societies are more community-minded. They do as they are told. Also, I don't know if you have noticed that they tended to wear masks for years before the corona virus even existed.

[Cunt]

Your theories are something to think about. Democrats die because of population density, but Japanese are dying far less because

Asian societies are more community-minded. They do as they are told.

This theory has me wondering about all the other Asian societies that have been ravaged, but maybe they weren't doing as they were told.

[Brian Peacock]

The idea that we'd somehow accept the strategies, policies, and deaths if Democrats were in charge, and therefore are only criticising because we 'hate' Trump and/or republicans, is completely bogus. Trump is in charge. This is just a fact, and when people are dying like this the nation's leader doesn't get a free pass - and nor should they, because people dying is a really important issue. It also virtue signals for those who don't or won't or haven't criticised Trump, implying that they'd support the same action from a Democrat leader because they're not hateful people but non-partisan, sensible, rational folk while Trump 'haters' are irrational hypocrites. This isn't just unrealistic, it's just not true, particularly when the supposed non-haters are, like Trump himself, actively blaming the former Democrat president for the failures of the current administration and calling those actions 'crimes'. And finally, and probably most significantly, it's at a time like this when we all want the government to succeed, to do a really excellent job, regardless of whether we voted for them or not. Applying scrutiny, discussion and debate, and criticism to the sitting government at a time of crisis is a way to ensure issues are identified and addressed and that decisions are reasonable, rational and as far as possible for the best. Dismissing that as 'hate' closes off the possibility that the government could be wrong or that they could do anything better in the circumstances - such that basically the charge of 'hate' is a way of avoiding scrutiny, limiting discussion, and excluding the possibility that the government could improve either in its understanding of or its response to the situation.

[Cunt]

The feds don't matter much. They didn't (couldn't!) close the states down. The state governments did whatever they did, and there will be 50 different results.

If anyone is interested in seeing how the republicans do vs the democrats, they can.

Of course, it will still be all Trump's fault.

[pErvinalia]

TWS

[Hermit]

Your theories are something to think about. Democrats die because of population density, but Japanese are dying far less because

Asian societies are more community-minded. They do as they are told.

This theory has me wondering about all the other Asian societies that have been ravaged, but maybe they weren't doing as they were told.

Well, the spread of the corona virus is multifactorial. In addition to population density there is the the degree to which people self-isolate. Also, the lag between the initial infections and the introduction of social isolation regulations. Then there is social mobility - particularly international travel to consider, and a whole raft of other factors.

We know that population density is one real factor. The high rates on cruise liners and abattoirs are too consistent to blithely dismiss them as mere coincidence. Voting intentions could be checked too, but not by cherry-picking the data. What needs to be done is to compare infection rates in areas, rural as well as urban, where a significant majority voted Democrat with areas, rural as well as urban, with similar population densities, where a significant majority voted Republican. If results consistently show that locations x with a population density y with a majority of Democrat voters have a higher infection rate than locations x with a population density y with a majority of Republican voters, then you can add voting intentions to the slew of factors that affect infection rates, provided that other variables are also controlled for.

[JimC]

You're making Cunt's head hurt...

[Scot Dutchy]

Hermit,
Either google made a bad translation (which is often the case especially with this level of Dutch) or you misunderstood it. There clear references to data and how it is inaccurate. It is a very interesting article and of just many that appears in de Volkskrant.