Redneck shoots up Pensacola with AK-47

[mistermack]

I've been racking my brains for and example of a people that have actually managed to do what Seth is fantasising about, to take their privately owned weapons and successfully fight off a "big brother" government.
You can't count Libya, they would be toast without our missiles and bombs.

Afghanistan is the only one.
So why don't you shoot off over there, Seth? Those boys have your attitude to government, and the same love of guns. You would rather rub shoulders with wolfies than sheepies. So fuck off and join em.
.

[FBM]

This discussion is an interesting example of the predominance of irrationality over rationality in human thinking. Neither side of this debate seems to acknowledge that their approach to defending their stance serves only to further entrench the opposition in their position. Yet, despite repeated failures, each side applies the same approach time and time again, somehow hoping for different results by applying the same approach over and over again. Interesting.

Anyway, just a brief aside. Carry on.

[Gallstones]

I've been racking my brains for and example of a people that have actually managed to do what Seth is fantasising about, to take their privately owned weapons and successfully fight off a "big brother" government.
You can't count Libya, they would be toast without our missiles and bombs.

Afghanistan is the only one.
So why don't you shoot off over there, Seth? Those boys have your attitude to government, and the same love of guns. You would rather rub shoulders with wolfies than sheepies. So fuck off and join em.
.

Not the USA then?

[laklak]

Lever actions make fine defensive firearms. I'd love to have Steve McQueen's shorty Winchester from "Wanted, Dead or Alive" (Dog, eat your heart out, Steve did it right) that recently made a cameo appearance in "Zombieland," but it's a Class III "short rifle" which makes it a pain to own.

Didn't Paladin carry a Buntline in "Have Gun, Will Travel"? I wonder if it's classed as a bog standard handgun.

[mistermack]

Not the USA then?

Well, I'm talking about what Seth was on about, which is present-day private citizens taking on a modern, democratic government.
The only internal threat to that has been the military, as far as I can remember.

[Seth]

Lever actions make fine defensive firearms. I'd love to have Steve McQueen's shorty Winchester from "Wanted, Dead or Alive" (Dog, eat your heart out, Steve did it right) that recently made a cameo appearance in "Zombieland," but it's a Class III "short rifle" which makes it a pain to own.

Didn't Paladin carry a Buntline in "Have Gun, Will Travel"? I wonder if it's classed as a bog standard handgun.

Yes, it is, it's just got a long barrel. Now, some versions of the revolver had a detatchable stock so it could become a rifle. An original with stock would be a legal firearm because it's an antique. A reproduction with a removable stock is a Class III weapon.

[Gallstones]

Recently a man was arrested in town--last Friday--for wielding a gun.

It is legal for Montanians to open carry.
So, in an open carry state, how does one define wield or brandish--behavior that would result in being arrested for openly having a gun and doing what...........what is it that violates the legal permission to open carry?


He was in a downtown park standing outside a casino and had a gun in his hand.
He resisted questioning.
It was 2230.
Arrested and charged with felony criminal endangerment.
Released on $20K bond.

(He lives five blocks from me. I walk through or near his neighborhood regularly. I am not afraid to do so.)

[FBM]

By "wield", the cops must mean that he was doing more than just standing while casually holding a firearm, eh? Details too scanty. Got a link?

[JimC]

Looking as if he was about to shoot the joint up (if that were the case) is surely enough for some prophylactic police work...

[Robert_S]

Recently a man was arrested in town--last Friday--for wielding a gun.

It is legal for Montanians to open carry.
So, in an open carry state, how does one define wield or brandish--behavior that would result in being arrested for openly having a gun and doing what...........what is it that violates the legal permission to open carry?


He was in a downtown park standing outside a casino and had a gun in his hand.
He resisted questioning.
It was 2230.
Arrested and charged with felony criminal endangerment.
Released on $20K bond.

(He lives five blocks from me. I walk through or near his neighborhood regularly. I am not afraid to do so.)

I'd expect that it would be having your finger too close to the trigger while facing the general direction of another person. When you're carrying, body language gets real loud.

[Seth]

Handgun or rifle.

If it was a handgun, "wielding" or "brandishing" would be having it in your hand and not in a holster. For a rifle or shotgun, it would be carrying it in a fashion that leads others to (reasonably) believe you might use it. Acceptable carry would be on a sling, in a case, with the action open (shotgun) or the magazine well empty and action locked open. Any time that the muzzle of the firearm "covers" or threatens to cover a human being, that can be both "brandishing" or "menacing."

Your demeanor and obedience to police instructions would also be important, and refusing to surrender a firearm when commanded by the police will do the trick.

It's a somewhat flexible definition precisely because it's difficult to analyze without reference to the exact totality of the circumstances.

[Gallstones]

Recently a man was arrested in town--last Friday--for wielding a gun.

It is legal for Montanians to open carry.
So, in an open carry state, how does one define wield or brandish--behavior that would result in being arrested for openly having a gun and doing what...........what is it that violates the legal permission to open carry?


He was in a downtown park standing outside a casino and had a gun in his hand.
He resisted questioning.
It was 2230.
Arrested and charged with felony criminal endangerment.
Released on $20K bond.

(He lives five blocks from me. I walk through or near his neighborhood regularly. I am not afraid to do so.)

I'd expect that it would be having your finger too close to the trigger while facing the general direction of another person. When you're carrying, body language gets real loud.

I don't know if this is supposed to be funny, but.......

My favorite reply so far.

[Gallstones]

Eff-Bee-Em, the details are scanty. I got this from the town newspaper. It comes out on Wed and Fri evenings. Fourteen pages and the whole thing can be read in less than 10 minutes. No link either--yet--sorry.

See post below for what details there are.

[Gallstones]

Handgun or rifle.

If it was a handgun, "wielding" or "brandishing" would be having it in your hand and not in a holster. For a rifle or shotgun, it would be carrying it in a fashion that leads others to (reasonably) believe you might use it. Acceptable carry would be on a sling, in a case, with the action open (shotgun) or the magazine well empty and action locked open. Any time that the muzzle of the firearm "covers" or threatens to cover a human being, that can be both "brandishing" or "menacing."

Your demeanor and obedience to police instructions would also be important, and refusing to surrender a firearm when commanded by the police will do the trick.

It's a somewhat flexible definition precisely because it's difficult to analyze without reference to the exact totality of the circumstances.

Thank you Seth.

.40 cal pistol is all it says. It was in his hand. He was intoxicated.
At some point he was hiding behind a pole and didn't come out right away when asked. When he was arrested the pistol had been stashed on his person. He was holding a cell phone. Arrested without incident.
Name and address are in the article too.

[Robert_S]

Handgun or rifle.

If it was a handgun, "wielding" or "brandishing" would be having it in your hand and not in a holster. For a rifle or shotgun, it would be carrying it in a fashion that leads others to (reasonably) believe you might use it. Acceptable carry would be on a sling, in a case, with the action open (shotgun) or the magazine well empty and action locked open. Any time that the muzzle of the firearm "covers" or threatens to cover a human being, that can be both "brandishing" or "menacing."

Your demeanor and obedience to police instructions would also be important, and refusing to surrender a firearm when commanded by the police will do the trick.

It's a somewhat flexible definition precisely because it's difficult to analyze without reference to the exact totality of the circumstances.

Thank you Seth.

.40 cal pistol is all it says. It was in his hand. He was intoxicated.
At some point he was hiding behind a pole and didn't come out right away when asked. When he was arrested the pistol had been stashed on his person. He was holding a cell phone. Arrested without incident.
Name and address are in the article too.

Drunk with a pistol and a cell phone... at least he wasn't driving