Utah official state firearm

[sandinista]

Gall, isn't violence tied to population concentrations and large cities?
Guns are no cause, they are just tools that are a bit too convenient.

more so violence is tied to poverty and draconian drug laws.

I don;t think so.

Violence is a tool and people have to be of the mindset that violence is a valid way to solve their problems.

And a gun is only one such tool of violence ( or protection ).

We have to remember that the genocide of Rwanda was enacted using machettes.

Sure, and poverty is obviously rampant in Rwanda. The mindset of violence is often the result of poverty and a reaction when there are no other alternatives. The vast percentage of violent crime (in canaduh anyway) can be traced back to poverty, draconian drug laws and or drug/alcohol abuse. Not a lot of people have guns here, we use knives fists and bats. The volience in Rwanda likely would not have ever happened if the population had a solid education system, housing and food.

[Wumbologist]

Sure, and poverty is obviously rampant in Rwanda. The mindset of violence is often the result of poverty and a reaction when there are no other alternatives. The vast percentage of violent crime (in canaduh anyway) can be traced back to poverty, draconian drug laws and or drug/alcohol abuse. Not a lot of people have guns here, we use knives fists and bats. The volience in Rwanda likely would not have ever happened if the
population had a solid education system, housing and food.

Yup. A big chunk of US murders can be pretty solidly linked to drug trafficking and the street gangs that make a business out of it, with poverty factoring in as an obvious reason why it's such a common path. The war on drugs needs to end, and serious strides need to be taken to reduce poverty (though you and I will probably differ greatly on how to do that!).

[sandinista]

Sure, and poverty is obviously rampant in Rwanda. The mindset of violence is often the result of poverty and a reaction when there are no other alternatives. The vast percentage of violent crime (in canaduh anyway) can be traced back to poverty, draconian drug laws and or drug/alcohol abuse. Not a lot of people have guns here, we use knives fists and bats. The volience in Rwanda likely would not have ever happened if the
population had a solid education system, housing and food.

Yup. A big chunk of US murders can be pretty solidly linked to drug trafficking and the street gangs that make a business out of it, with poverty factoring in as an obvious reason why it's such a common path. The war on drugs needs to end, and serious strides need to be taken to reduce poverty (though you and I will probably differ greatly on how to do that!).

It seems odd that everyone I come across in internet forum land (every political ideology really) unanimously agrees the drug war needs to end. I've never heard anyone defend the criminalization of marijuana (except as devils advocate). Yet, it is still a federal crime in every "free", "democratic" western country.

[Coito ergo sum]

Sure, and poverty is obviously rampant in Rwanda. The mindset of violence is often the result of poverty and a reaction when there are no other alternatives. The vast percentage of violent crime (in canaduh anyway) can be traced back to poverty, draconian drug laws and or drug/alcohol abuse. Not a lot of people have guns here, we use knives fists and bats. The volience in Rwanda likely would not have ever happened if the
population had a solid education system, housing and food.

Yup. A big chunk of US murders can be pretty solidly linked to drug trafficking and the street gangs that make a business out of it, with poverty factoring in as an obvious reason why it's such a common path. The war on drugs needs to end, and serious strides need to be taken to reduce poverty (though you and I will probably differ greatly on how to do that!).

It seems odd that everyone I come across in internet forum land (every political ideology really) unanimously agrees the drug war needs to end. I've never heard anyone defend the criminalization of marijuana (except as devils advocate). Yet, it is still a federal crime in every "free", "democratic" western country.

I agree. It shouldn't be illegal.

[sandinista]

Sure, and poverty is obviously rampant in Rwanda. The mindset of violence is often the result of poverty and a reaction when there are no other alternatives. The vast percentage of violent crime (in canaduh anyway) can be traced back to poverty, draconian drug laws and or drug/alcohol abuse. Not a lot of people have guns here, we use knives fists and bats. The volience in Rwanda likely would not have ever happened if the
population had a solid education system, housing and food.

Yup. A big chunk of US murders can be pretty solidly linked to drug trafficking and the street gangs that make a business out of it, with poverty factoring in as an obvious reason why it's such a common path. The war on drugs needs to end, and serious strides need to be taken to reduce poverty (though you and I will probably differ greatly on how to do that!).

It seems odd that everyone I come across in internet forum land (every political ideology really) unanimously agrees the drug war needs to end. I've never heard anyone defend the criminalization of marijuana (except as devils advocate). Yet, it is still a federal crime in every "free", "democratic" western country.

I agree. It shouldn't be illegal.

yes, that's the point, everyone agrees. Whats the problem...democracy?

[Warren Dew]

It seems odd that everyone I come across in internet forum land (every political ideology really) unanimously agrees the drug war needs to end. I've never heard anyone defend the criminalization of marijuana (except as devils advocate). Yet, it is still a federal crime in every "free", "democratic" western country.

How much time do you spend on Christian forums? I suspect you may only be seeing people that range from the political middle to the political left, with no representation from the religious right.

[JimC]

It seems odd that everyone I come across in internet forum land (every political ideology really) unanimously agrees the drug war needs to end. I've never heard anyone defend the criminalization of marijuana (except as devils advocate). Yet, it is still a federal crime in every "free", "democratic" western country.

How much time do you spend on Christian forums? I suspect you may only be seeing people that range from the political middle to the political left, with no representation from the religious right.

Spot on, I'd say. And the atheist, libertarian right are also well represented on the forums that sandinista and the rest of us frequent as well, and most of those will advocate legalising drugs as well.

Definitely an unrepresentative sample.

But on another issue, you don't have to be anti-gun in general to want to maintain strict controls on handgun ownership in a country where there are few pistols out there already. As other people have said, the US situation is starting from a position that many guns are out there, and it may simply not be realistic to advocate the sort of controls in place in the UK and Australia.

But I really enjoyed shooting with rifles and shotguns in the past (when I had the eyesight to do it effectively... ), and would have enjoyed the chance to shoot a pistol on a range. When my Dad was a young man, he was a competition shooter with a .22 target pistol, and loved it...

[Wumbologist]

But I really enjoyed shooting with rifles and shotguns in the past (when I had the eyesight to do it effectively... ),

I know a bit about how this feels! No surgeries or the like, but my right eye has pretty major keratoconus and is nearly uncorrectable without surgery. It's not easy to learn to shoot with right hand dominance and only your left eye useful for aiming. Pistols have been a challenge for me (though at least I'm consistent in where the rounds land, even if it's not spot on target!), and my rifle had a bit of a learning curve, but learning to shoot it lefty wasn't terribly difficult.

[Gallstones]

I thought Rwanda was political.

[Seth]

But I really enjoyed shooting with rifles and shotguns in the past (when I had the eyesight to do it effectively... ),

I know a bit about how this feels! No surgeries or the like, but my right eye has pretty major keratoconus and is nearly uncorrectable without surgery. It's not easy to learn to shoot with right hand dominance and only your left eye useful for aiming. Pistols have been a challenge for me (though at least I'm consistent in where the rounds land, even if it's not spot on target!), and my rifle had a bit of a learning curve, but learning to shoot it lefty wasn't terribly difficult.

I had that too, just barely under the maximum for LASIK. I had LASIK for <20/400 vision. Now I have 20/20 in both eyes.

[sandinista]

It seems odd that everyone I come across in internet forum land (every political ideology really) unanimously agrees the drug war needs to end. I've never heard anyone defend the criminalization of marijuana (except as devils advocate). Yet, it is still a federal crime in every "free", "democratic" western country.

How much time do you spend on Christian forums? I suspect you may only be seeing people that range from the political middle to the political left, with no representation from the religious right.

So, the christians are the people in charge of US, and by default all other western countries policies. I do apologize for the off topic

[Wumbologist]

I had that too, just barely under the maximum for LASIK. I had LASIK for <20/400 vision. Now I have 20/20 in both eyes.

My doctor told me LASIK's not an option for me. Take a shotglass and look through the bottom of it, that's my right eye with glasses.

[Wumbologist]

It seems odd that everyone I come across in internet forum land (every political ideology really) unanimously agrees the drug war needs to end. I've never heard anyone defend the criminalization of marijuana (except as devils advocate). Yet, it is still a federal crime in every "free", "democratic" western country.

How much time do you spend on Christian forums? I suspect you may only be seeing people that range from the political middle to the political left, with no representation from the religious right.

So, the christians are the people in charge of US, and by default all other western countries policies. I do apologize for the off topic

No, that's way off. Burt Reynolds is the sole world conductor, hidden behind many, many layers of propaganda screening. If Burt Reynolds doesn't like drugs, the world doesn't get drugs.

[Svartalf]

I had that too, just barely under the maximum for LASIK. I had LASIK for <20/400 vision. Now I have 20/20 in both eyes.

My doctor told me LASIK's not an option for me. Take a shotglass and look through the bottom of it, that's my right eye with glasses.

I had a friend get LASIK 10 years ago, she's already (at 36) seeing her sight get back down.
my nearsightedness is worse than hers, but I've kept the same pair of glasses for like 10 or 12 years, and I don't think the lenses are going to change soon

[Seth]

I had that too, just barely under the maximum for LASIK. I had LASIK for <20/400 vision. Now I have 20/20 in both eyes.

My doctor told me LASIK's not an option for me. Take a shotglass and look through the bottom of it, that's my right eye with glasses.

Been there, done that. You might want to check with a LASIK expert with the latest equipment just to be sure. I was told the same thing by my eye doctor, but when I went to the clinic and saw one of the doctors who pioneered the procedure, he said he could do it.

Changed my life, and I wouldn't go back for anything, even though I do have some nighttime driving glare.