Gabrielle Giffords Shot

[JOZeldenrust]

Great timing, Arizona...

Here's an idea. Make it illegal to possess and carry a handun unless you go through a very rigorous vetting proceedure...

We will hear the usual screams of outrage about personal freedom here, but that cuts no ice with me. Increasingly, I wonder at how cut off from world opinion many Americans are. Almost universally, the world looks at gun crimes like those in the States, and looks at the absurd laxity of your gun laws, and the romantic illusions of wild-west freedom you cling to, and collectively rolls its eyes...

The "world?" Or, the few countries in western Europe?

As we discussed in detail above - the statistics in the US on intentional homicides, even with our "lax" gun laws, are far lower than most other countries, and lower than Europe as a whole (although the US is higher than western/central Europe).

Why isn't the world "rolling its eyes" at the intentional homicide rate in Mexico, which is 15 per 100,000 - three times that of the US rate of 5 per 100,000. Why are eyes not rolling on almost all of South and Central America, Africa, Eastern Europe and most of Asia?

The numbers relative to intentional homicides in the US are a testament, actually, to a country that can live with handguns readily available and still maintain quite near the middle of the pack in terms of actual killings overall.

Because at least there the general population agrees that the situation isn't desirable, and also because all those countries have no real functioning government.

You can go and compare gun related death to any country and see that America does better then most failing states, most totalitarian states and most utterly corrupt states, but among functioning democracies America is striking a dismal figure.

[JimC]

Great timing, Arizona...

Here's an idea. Make it illegal to possess and carry a handun unless you go through a very rigorous vetting proceedure...

We will hear the usual screams of outrage about personal freedom here, but that cuts no ice with me. Increasingly, I wonder at how cut off from world opinion many Americans are. Almost universally, the world looks at gun crimes like those in the States, and looks at the absurd laxity of your gun laws, and the romantic illusions of wild-west freedom you cling to, and collectively rolls its eyes...

The "world?" Or, the few countries in western Europe?

As we discussed in detail above - the statistics in the US on intentional homicides, even with our "lax" gun laws, are far lower than most other countries, and lower than Europe as a whole (although the US is higher than western/central Europe).

Why isn't the world "rolling its eyes" at the intentional homicide rate in Mexico, which is 15 per 100,000 - three times that of the US rate of 5 per 100,000. Why are eyes not rolling on almost all of South and Central America, Africa, Eastern Europe and most of Asia?

The numbers relative to intentional homicides in the US are a testament, actually, to a country that can live with handguns readily available and still maintain quite near the middle of the pack in terms of actual killings overall.

Because at least there the general population agrees that the situation isn't desirable, and also because all those countries have no real functioning government.

You can go and compare gun related death to any country and see that America does better then most failing states, most totalitarian states and most utterly corrupt states, but among functioning democracies America is striking a dismal figure.

Good point - lets compare apples with apples...

[Trolldor]

Actually, the removal of handguns makes a successful suicide attempt increasingly unlikely.

[mistermack]

[According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) the estimate is about 52,447 deliberate gunshot wounds per year (or 0.017% of the population per year). Another 23,000 are accidental, nonfatal. Obviously, a "Brady Campaign" site would be interested in jacking the figures up. 7 gun homicides per every 100,000 in the US. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides - so, they're going to not likely be saved by gun laws. Suicides will likely find another way to off themselves.

If I got shot, it wouldn't hurt one bit less if it was an accident, so I don't see that as jacking the number up. Quite the opposite. It's more likely to be a loved one that you shot, so you've got grief and guilt to cope with as well.

But I think you're missing the important point. If you looked at the deaths and injuries from terrorism, it would be miniscule. But the whole country is paranoid about terrorists. The effect on the national sense of security is out of all proportion to the injury and death figures.

With guns, it's a similar effect. You live your life with the knowledge that that road rage incident could end with you getting shot. Or take a wrong turn, and you experience that fear of ending up in a tight spot.
So the feeling of security is greatly diminished. You may be so used to it, you've maybe forgotten what it's like not to live that way. But the difference is still there.

You also have to take into account all the robberies, rapes, and intimidation that take place using guns, that don't end with a gunshot wound. Illegal guns exist in such numbers, because of the huge numbers of legal ones.

[Trolldor]

But I think you're missing the important point. If you looked at the deaths and injuries from terrorism, it would be miniscule. But the whole country is paranoid about terrorists. The effect on the national sense of security is out of all proportion to the injury and death figures.

And backyard pools are more dangerous than handguns. Clearly the national outrage over handguns would be unjustified in the face of the deadly pool.

[mistermack]

But I think you're missing the important point. If you looked at the deaths and injuries from terrorism, it would be miniscule. But the whole country is paranoid about terrorists. The effect on the national sense of security is out of all proportion to the injury and death figures.

And backyard pools are more dangerous than handguns. Clearly the national outrage over handguns would be unjustified in the face of the deadly pool.

Why not add cars? Better example than pools.
But nobody gets robbed or raped at pool point. Well, nearly nobody.

[Trolldor]

And males. Most criminals are male, and from minorities. Clearly we need to crack down on males from minority groups.

[Feck]

Actually, the removal of handguns makes a successful suicide attempt increasingly unlikely.

It probably makes suicide on a whim while drunk or drugged less likely ,Small point but to say that accidental deaths by guns don't feature is rubbish ! it also makes a laughing stock of the point that guns are safe if used properly .

Handguns are not designed for defence they are made to kill people . I cannot see a single sensible reason why they should be sold with less regulation and training than a vehicle . But that's not going to help Merika much is it ? you can't recall all the hardware it's out there and lose .

And for the record Palin is not the cause of the shooting ,I doubt even if the present political climate made much of a difference (it can't have helped though).
I do find the sight of political figures waving guns around disturbing They should be careful people could get shot in the face by the sort of people you have elected to president (oh yeah he looked like a quail ) . I also have my doubts about the need to wear Dayglo orange when hunting or the use of Ar-15 variants etc .
If you can't check your background before the shot and you need an assault rifle to hunt then you are not competent or careful enough to be out with a gun never mind killing wildlife .

[mistermack]

And males. Most criminals are male, and from minorities. Clearly we need to crack down on males from minority groups.

We do.

[Trolldor]

But then, mother's give birth to those males, so we ought to crack down on their mothers, not them.

[PsychoSerenity]

Amino acids are the original cause of all the trouble in the universe. Let's have a War on Amino Acids!

[Trolldor]

Well, actually, if we follow the trail it's all God's fault.

[PsychoSerenity]

[Warren Dew]

Here's an idea. Make it illegal to possess and carry a handun unless you go through a very rigorous vetting proceedure...

Alternatively, make it a requirement for everyone to carry a gun so that Gifford's lack of a security detail wouldn't be quite as big a blunder.

[Feck]

I event went on the Washington DC subway thing and I didn't get shot. Useless Merkins.

You see - the thing is, some of you Europeans blend in, especially you limey blighters, because your hides are almost indistinguishable from most 'merkins. Like Canadians, you blend in with the general population, and move among us - almost with impunity - without being identifiable by our marksmen. Now, the Spanish and Italians are at greater risk, because they are easily confused with Mexicans.

Should we promise to smile lots so you can see our bad teeth