Herman Cain: It's Your Fault if You're Unemployed

[charlou]

I don't know what it's like where you are, Coito, but I suspect it's not that different to Australia, wherein personally negotiating pay rates is not possible for most employment positions. The types of jobs where it is possible to do so are fewer than those where it isn't possible. Okay, you can say that if people want the privilege of negoting pay rates then they can just go and seek those jobs ... That's fine and dandy ... but the point is there only so many of those jobs ... and it still leaves a large number of people vieing for all those positions where such negotiations are not possible, and having to settle for what is on offer.

Here, at least, we have workers unions to negotiate rates and working conditions on behalf of a bloc of employees.

[Coito ergo sum]

I don't know what it's like where you are, Coito, but I suspect it's not that different to Australia, wherein personally negotiating pay rates is not possible for most employment positions. The types of jobs where it is possible to do so are fewer than those where it isn't possible. Okay, you can say that if people want the privilege of negoting pay rates then they can just go and seek those jobs ... That's fine and dandy ... but the point is there only so many of those jobs ... and it still leaves a large number of people vieing for all those positions where such negotiations are not possible, and having to settle for what is on offer.

Here, at least, we have workers unions to negotiate rates and working conditions on behalf of a bloc of employees.

i have asked for more money on jobs working in convenience stores. It's less likely to get movement from large chains, as opposed to local businesses where you're dealing with the owner. But, even with chain stores, they typically have a range they are allowed to pay for different positions. So, often, there is flexibility where one might not normally expect there to be flexibility. It never hurts to ask. And, employers obviously have an incentive to foster the notion that pay is non-negotiable. With union jobs it is much more difficult, because wage scales are set by contract, but I've read, for example, unionized teacher contracts where there are ranges of pay grades based on different factors and there is some flexibility there too for the school to pay a bit more for someone they deem more desirable.

We have unions in the U.S. too, but not everyone works for a union. If one works for a union, one gives up the right to negotiate individually, and accepts collective bargaining.

[Svartalf]

And did you get the job? Even if owners are easier to negociate with, unless you had something real special, the standard answer would be "don't get too big for your pants boy, there are a couple dozn other boys who want that job as much a you do, or more, and who won't be a pin in the rear.

[Coito ergo sum]

And did you get the job? Even if owners are easier to negociate with, unless you had something real special, the standard answer would be "don't get too big for your pants boy, there are a couple dozn other boys who want that job as much a you do, or more, and who won't be a pin in the rear.

If you're talking about pay, you've already got the job. They've said - we'd like to hire you, and here's how much we pay. So, when I ask for more money, I've already gotten the job.

Sometimes they say "no, we will not be able to offer any more money," sometimes they say, "we can't offer you that much, but we can go up a little..." and sometimes they say, "yes, we will pay you that." I've had all three happen in my life. In the cases where they say flat out "no", like I wrote above about my first job offer out of college, I turned down the job because they wouldn't pay me more money. I could have still taken it at their first offer.

Never have I had an offer withdrawn because I asked for more money. I have had them say no to the more money, though. How else can it work? A government agency setting wages for every job out there? Sounds ludicrous. If the going rate for bookkeepers is set by the government at $X per year, that doesn't take into account the fact that bookkeepers may be more valuable to one type of business than another type of business. Or, one business owner might be very good at bookkeeping himself, and he or she doesn't feel inclined to hire a bookkeeper if it's going to cost a lot, because he or she would prefer to burn the midnight oil himself or herself and do it without hiring someone.

[Seth]

And did you get the job? Even if owners are easier to negociate with, unless you had something real special, the standard answer would be "don't get too big for your pants boy, there are a couple dozn other boys who want that job as much a you do, or more, and who won't be a pin in the rear.

Well, that's what you get when your class of job skills are commonly available. You are competing with others, which means that you will have to show the potential employer why he should select you rather than someone else. So what? That's just how the free markets work, even the free market for employment. Why should an employer give you special consideration if there are a dozen or a hundred people who can do the same job you can do for less money?

If you want a better job with better pay, make yourself worth more to the employer.

Socialists seem to think that an employer owes them a job no matter how lazy or incompetent they might be. They are wrong.

[Tyrannical]

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) said Wednesday that as Americans find out what the Federal Reserve is up to, it is “no wonder they are up on Wall Street raising Cain because they know the system is biased against the average person. The Federal Reserve is bigger and spends more money than the Congress does,” with approximately $15 trillion worth of transactions.

http://thehill.com/video/campaign/18571 ... all-street

Nice one minute video of Ron Paul.

[MattShizzle]

Socialists and Communists want fairness. Libertarians and Conservatives want a return to Feudalism. Success is entirely due to luck, and nobody should make more just because they were lucky. Everyone should get the same. If anyone has any more than anyone else something is wrong.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anybody care what plain old human beings want?

[Jason]

Anybody care what plain old human beings want?

There is no sanctuary.

You must be an -ist, -ian, or an -ive.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anybody care what plain old human beings want?

There is no sanctuary.

You must be an -ist, -ian, or an -ive.

How about a ian then?

[Tyrannical]

Socialists and Communists want fairness. Libertarians and Conservatives want a return to Feudalism. Success is entirely due to luck, and nobody should make more just because they were lucky. Everyone should get the same. If anyone has any more than anyone else something is wrong.

Name a Communist country that hasn't devolved into feudalism. Rule by the worker quickly became rule by the privileged communist elite.

[Ian]

Anybody care what plain old human beings want?

There is no sanctuary.

You must be an -ist, -ian, or an -ive.

How about a ian then?

I resent that.

[Jason]

Anybody care what plain old human beings want?

There is no sanctuary.

You must be an -ist, -ian, or an -ive.

How about a ian then?

Sure. You just need to develop a sociopolitical system and general philosophy of life to go with it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anybody care what plain old human beings want?

There is no sanctuary.

You must be an -ist, -ian, or an -ive.

How about a ian then?

I resent that.

Kiss my unhyphenated ass.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anybody care what plain old human beings want?

There is no sanctuary.

You must be an -ist, -ian, or an -ive.

How about a ian then?

Sure. You just need to develop a sociopolitical system and general philosophy of life to go with it.

Be easier and better to shoot anybody who proposed to do so.