Herman Cain: It's Your Fault if You're Unemployed

[Seth]

So what do you think about education being the sole preserve of the rich in the US seth? Working hard doesn't cut it when you are crippled by debt and there aren't any graduate jobs

That's why higher education is often wasted on the lumpen proletariat. College should be something to be earned through hard work and scholarship and it should be reserved for the best and brightest. Those who show great promise should get scholarships for college.

Everybody else should get vocational education in a trade, thus avoiding a massive student loan bill that does little more than give one an incredibly expensive piece of toilet paper that's worthless in the real world.

After all, somebody's got to plumb the toilets and wire the houses and dig ditches and pick onions and flip burgers. You don't need a college degree for any of that.

Congratulations you just described the higher education system in the former USSR

Socialist higher education is always inferior because it wastes expensive resources on those who are not qualified to receive it or make use of it, which means it wastes a lot of money, which inevitably means that the system is dumbed down and becomes quickly inferior because limited resources must be stretched beyond the limit to serve the "right" of everyone to have a college degree. This makes the degree pretty much worthless.

And that's exactly what's happening to the leftist-run higher education system in the US right now. The more such education becomes a "right" (as it was in the USSR, contrary to your assertion) the less the education is worth. That's why, for example, every third person in Russia is a "doctor" or "lawyer" but ends up selling flowers or stirring borscht in a shop somewhere.

Expensive educational resources should be reserved for those who are motivated to make the best use of it, and usually that means those who are willing to work hard to achieve the degree, which doesn't happen if the education is free. Whatever is provided for free has little value to those who obtain it. The expense and difficulty of obtaining a college degree is the gatekeeper and hurdle that keeps the education worth something in the business world.

[MrJonno]

Nobody owes you anything. Adapt or die

My adapation is making sure I pay taxes to ensure those who want to fuck up the country get their doors kicked in and arrested

[Seth]

And that's why Capitalism should be illegal, or at least much more regulated.

Why? Because you don't want to do your job or abide by the agreements you made voluntarily? Lazy bums deserve to live under bridges, and liars, cheats and thieves, like those who violate the terms of their voluntary employment contract, deserve nothing at all.

Adapt or die.

[charlou]

Nobody owes you anything. Adapt or die

My adapation is making sure I pay taxes to ensure those who want to fuck up the country get their doors kicked in and arrested

Fucking quoteworthy.

[Seth]

Nobody owes you anything. Adapt or die

My adapation is making sure I pay taxes to ensure those who want to fuck up the country get their doors kicked in and arrested

So, you favor arresting socialists? Glad to hear it.

[MrJonno]

So, you favor arresting socialists? Glad to hear it

The welfare state and the universal healthcare has kept me alive in bad times so I would have to be pretty suicial to want that

[Svartalf]

And that's why Capitalism should be illegal, or at least much more regulated.

Yeah, work contracts tend to be ruthlessly leonine

[Coito ergo sum]

Are you retarded?

Frankly, coming from someone who advocated the notion that "everyone should be paid the same salary no matter what, whether they work or not" that is is a fairly laughable accusation.

So why should someone be paid more just because they were lucky enough to get a job/better job?

They shouldn't be paid more "just because" they were lucky enough to get a job/better job.

You'll need to think about this in the active voice, rather than the passive voice.

John Smith pays Jim Doe to work for him as an bookkeeper. If Jim Doe doesn't work for John Smith, then John Smith doesn't pay him. If Jim Doe does work for John Smith, then John Smith pays Jim Doe what they agree to. If John Smith offers $30,000 a year and Jim Does will only work for $50,000 a year, then Jim Doe won't work for John Smith. If Richard Roe is home watching t.v., then John Smith doesn't pay him. Money doesn't emerge out of thin air and wind up in people's bank accounts. Businesses don't have bottomless pits of money to pay employees for doing nothing, or to pay people who don't work for them.

Now, some jobs are, like it or not, worth more to John Smith than other jobs. John Smith runs an office, for example. John Smith needs a bookkeeper. So he hires Jim Doe for $30,000 a year. He needs a receptionist too. He can hire Billy Bob, or he can use a new fangled system where some off-site company handles the phone answering duties like an answering service, but it sounds just like someone is there at the office as a receptionist. So, he determines the cost of the new fangled system is $15,000 a year. He'd rather just hire a receptionist at his office, and so he offers Billy Bob $15,000 a year for the job. Billy Bob won't work for $15,000 a year, though., he will only work for $30,000 a year because Jim Doe makes $30,000.

John Smith doesn't think Billy Bob is worth $30,000 a year, and John Smith would rather just pay the off site answering service $15,000 a year to handle the job.

That's why Billy Bob can't make $30,000 a year for John Smith, but Jim Doe can. The bookkeeping work is worth more to John Smith than the reception work.

Why should John Smith be forced to hire Billy Bob at the same price as Jim Doe when John Smith doesn't think the reception duties are worth as much as the bookkeeping duties. Answering the phone, to John Smith, is low risk, and easily done by a fungible source of employees. A bookkeeper, however, requires more skill, more experience, and there is a lot riding on the bookkeeping - taxes for one thing - he could be really screwed if the bookeeper screws up. So, John Smith wants to pay the bookkeeper more to make sure he attracts a more talented, reliable person.

Does that illustrate it for you?

[Svartalf]

Nobody owes you anything. Adapt or die

My adapation is making sure I pay taxes to ensure those who want to fuck up the country get their doors kicked in and arrested

bush and rove never got their doors arrested, time to demand a tax refund. (same for cameron if you're british)

[Seth]

yes I always get to negotiate any employment contract , maybe on planet Seth.

Sure you do. Your employer says "I have a job, it pays X per hour, do you want the job?" You say "Yes, I would like the job."

Bingo! Contract negotiated and ratified. Don't blame the employer if you're an idiot and don't negotiate more shrewdly.

I suspect even without such a contract your employer could probable sue you for industrial esponiage,

Do look up the term "espionage" before you make more of a fool of yourself than you already have.

going to work for a customer is a complete no=no in any job.

Well, yes, it does mean you can't work for your former employer again. So what? If he's "exploiting" you so badly, who cares?

Expect to never work again in the same industry if did this.

Depends on the industry and the job. Nothing prevents you from opening your own competing company if you have the knowledge and skills to do a job that your present employer does more cheaply than he does it. That's exactly what the free market is all about. Unless you signed a no-compete contract, in which case you're fucked and will have to find some other market segment to compete in. So what? Big deal! That's what entrepreneurs do.

Lazy socialist bums think their employer exists to provide them with perpetual employment and a wage that's "fair" by the measure of lazy socialists who think you can get blood from a turnip and something for nothing. That's exactly why the US auto industry is in the toilet; the socialists at the labor unions have soaked the industry on wages and benefits to the point where the companies can no longer compete in the marketplace and are going bankrupt. Oh, look, no jobs AT ALL for the unionized workers! Sucks to be them I guess. Hoist on their own petard.

Almost most customers of any business Ive worked for have also signed contracts saying they cant recruit either to stop the old -I didnt ask for them a job they asked me

How stupid is that? Signing a contract that prevents you from finding a cheaper vendor is a pretty silly thing for a customer to do.

So, they asked you to come to work for them and you didn't negotiate an acceptable contract? How stupid are you?

[Coito ergo sum]

yes I always get to negotiate any employment contract , maybe on planet Seth.

In ever single job I have ever had, since I turned 18 anyway, I have always asked the prospective employer for a little bit more money than they initially offered me, and a minimum of every year I have asked for raises. That's what is called negotiating. Sometimes I got more money, and sometimes not.

My first job out of college, I was offered a position for $X and I didn't think it was enough. I responded that I needed more money. They said no, and I turned the job down. In a later job, I was hired at the same time as a friend of mine with very similar education and experience - same age - same resume basically - same good grades. He took the job for $X and I got $X plus about 15%. Why? I asked for more money. He didn't. I was paid more (I found out through the office manager who let it slip over Happy Hour beer).

I suspect even without such a contract your employer could probable sue you for industrial esponiage, going to work for a customer is a complete no=no in any job.

Not in the U.S., unless you have a non-compete agreement. In the U.S. you can not compete against your employer while you are employed, but after you leave you can solicit their customers all you want. If your employer didn't get you to sign a noncompetition and non-solicitation agreement, then it's a free country. Compete away.

[Seth]

So, you favor arresting socialists? Glad to hear it

The welfare state and the universal healthcare has kept me alive in bad times so I would have to be pretty suicial to want that

So, this is all about your selfish personal needs and desires. I thought so. That's a pretty typical thing for socialist thieves to say.

[charlou]

yes I always get to negotiate any employment contract , maybe on planet Seth.

Sure you do. Your employer says "I have a job, it pays X per hour, do you want the job?" You say "Yes, I would like the job."

Bingo! Contract negotiated and ratified. Don't blame the employer if you're an idiot and don't negotiate more shrewdly.

Or you say "Yes, I would like the job but will expect more pay per hour.

Dang! The other guy got the job. Don't blame the employer if he doesn't give a fuck that you tried to negotiate more shrewdly.

[charlou]

So, this is all about your selfish personal needs and desires. I thought so. That's a pretty typical thing for socialist thieves to say.

What I'm quoting here is what is selfish.

[Coito ergo sum]

yes I always get to negotiate any employment contract , maybe on planet Seth.

Sure you do. Your employer says "I have a job, it pays X per hour, do you want the job?" You say "Yes, I would like the job."

Bingo! Contract negotiated and ratified. Don't blame the employer if you're an idiot and don't negotiate more shrewdly.

Or you say "Yes, I would like the job but will expect more pay per hour.

Dang! The other guy got the job. Don't blame the employer if he doesn't give a fuck that you tried to negotiate more shrewdly.

That is true, it doesn't always work out. However, I have found through years of experience that asking for money does not generally result in you losing the opportunity. You ask for more money, and if the employer says no, then you still have the original offer and you can choose to take it. I have never had an employer get upset at me asking for more money. Most employers respect it. They will either be willing to pay more, or they won't. But, they invariably respect it. And, I can't think of a time when an employer has withdrawn the original offer because a candidate discussed the idea of higher pay.