Gabrielle Giffords Shot

[Atheist-Lite]

Other than those high profile cases everyday shootings are a rarity in Europe.

[Lozzer]

Other than those high profile cases everyday shootings are a rarity in Europe.

Yey for no right to bear arms

[Coito ergo sum]

Other than those high profile cases everyday shootings are a rarity in Europe.

Oh - and here I thought we were talking about something like occurred on Saturday... a high profile shooting.... our high profile shootings are a rarity.

Hmmm.... but, let's look at the facts on everyday crime...

Intentional homicides:

United States - 5.0 per 100,000
Europe - 5.4 per 100,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

Wholly crap dude -- look at that... in 2010... we murderous United Statesians have a lower per 100,000 intentional homicide rate - even with all the guns we have, than Europe!

Naturally, you'll claim that some of Europe shouldn't be taken into account -- like the nasty eastern part, right? Well - for each country you exclude, I'll take an item off our statistic -- our numbers will get better real quick when we don't have to figure in Puerto Rico (23 per 100,000) and Washington DC (24 per 100,000) and then we can skew it down to just the good states.... You've got England and Norway - we have Vermont and New Hampshire....lol

It's funny - when it comes right down to it - this "the US is so violent" line is just tired bullshit. Other than a few very calm countries in the west and central Europe - Europeans are carving each other up like holiday turkeys just as much as the next population of mere humans.... since we generally compare Europe to the US due to comparative size, we ought to do so here too...can't just compare your best 10 states with our entire 50, plus DC and Puerto Rico!

[Lozzer]

Other than those high profile cases everyday shootings are a rarity in Europe.

Oh - and here I thought we were talking about something like occurred on Saturday... a high profile shooting.... our high profile shootings are a rarity.

Hmmm.... but, let's look at the facts on everyday crime...

Intentional homicides:

United States - 5.0 per 100,000
Europe - 5.4 per 100,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

Wholly crap dude -- look at that... in 2010... we murderous United Statesians have a lower per 100,000 intentional homicide rate - even with all the guns we have, than Europe!

Naturally, you'll claim that some of Europe shouldn't be taken into account -- like the nasty eastern part, right? Well - for each country you exclude, I'll take an item off our statistic -- our numbers will get better real quick when we don't have to figure in Puerto Rico (23 per 100,000) and Washington DC (24 per 100,000) and then we can skew it down to just the good states....

Disingenuous. Europe is a continent, not a country. Consider the rates of homicides in European countries, individually per 100,000.

[Lozzer]

Other than those high profile cases everyday shootings are a rarity in Europe.

Oh - and here I thought we were talking about something like occurred on Saturday... a high profile shooting.... our high profile shootings are a rarity.

Hmmm.... but, let's look at the facts on everyday crime...

Intentional homicides:

United States - 5.0 per 100,000
Europe - 5.4 per 100,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

Wholly crap dude -- look at that... in 2010... we murderous United Statesians have a lower per 100,000 intentional homicide rate - even with all the guns we have, than Europe!

Naturally, you'll claim that some of Europe shouldn't be taken into account -- like the nasty eastern part, right? Well - for each country you exclude, I'll take an item off our statistic -- our numbers will get better real quick when we don't have to figure in Puerto Rico (23 per 100,000) and Washington DC (24 per 100,000) and then we can skew it down to just the good states....

Disingenuous. Europe is a continent, not a country. Consider the rates of homicides in European countries, individually per 100,000.

West and Central Europe: 1.5

That has the closest relevancy, if only because it's the region with tight gun regulations.

[Coito ergo sum]

Other than those high profile cases everyday shootings are a rarity in Europe.

Oh - and here I thought we were talking about something like occurred on Saturday... a high profile shooting.... our high profile shootings are a rarity.

Hmmm.... but, let's look at the facts on everyday crime...

Intentional homicides:

United States - 5.0 per 100,000
Europe - 5.4 per 100,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

Wholly crap dude -- look at that... in 2010... we murderous United Statesians have a lower per 100,000 intentional homicide rate - even with all the guns we have, than Europe!

Naturally, you'll claim that some of Europe shouldn't be taken into account -- like the nasty eastern part, right? Well - for each country you exclude, I'll take an item off our statistic -- our numbers will get better real quick when we don't have to figure in Puerto Rico (23 per 100,000) and Washington DC (24 per 100,000) and then we can skew it down to just the good states....

Disingenuous. Europe is a continent, not a country. Consider the rates of homicides in European countries, individually per 100,000.

Bull - in every other discussion, the US has to go up against continents - US compared to Europe is the order of the day for all economic discussions and all sorts of things. Now, when it suits you, you want to carve out your best examples and compare it to the 50 US states, Waschington DC, and Puerto Rico all combined? Now THAT would be disingenuous.

[Coito ergo sum]

Other than those high profile cases everyday shootings are a rarity in Europe.

Oh - and here I thought we were talking about something like occurred on Saturday... a high profile shooting.... our high profile shootings are a rarity.

Hmmm.... but, let's look at the facts on everyday crime...

Intentional homicides:

United States - 5.0 per 100,000
Europe - 5.4 per 100,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

Wholly crap dude -- look at that... in 2010... we murderous United Statesians have a lower per 100,000 intentional homicide rate - even with all the guns we have, than Europe!

Naturally, you'll claim that some of Europe shouldn't be taken into account -- like the nasty eastern part, right? Well - for each country you exclude, I'll take an item off our statistic -- our numbers will get better real quick when we don't have to figure in Puerto Rico (23 per 100,000) and Washington DC (24 per 100,000) and then we can skew it down to just the good states....

Disingenuous. Europe is a continent, not a country. Consider the rates of homicides in European countries, individually per 100,000.

West and Central Europe: 1.5

That has the closest relevancy, if only because it's the region with tight gun regulations.

BWAWAAAAAAA!!!! "Closest relevancy" being a euphemism for "best numbers" --

I'll go with our best 10 states, so that we can come to a comparison that bears the "closest relevancy..." Coincidentally.... they range from 0.8 to 2.0 - and average about 1.5 - just eye-ballin' it.

[Lozzer]

Bull - in every other discussion, the US has to go up against continents - US compared to Europe is the order of the day for all economic discussions and all sorts of things. Now, when it suits you, you want to carve out your best examples and compare it to the 50 US states, Waschington DC, and Puerto Rico all combined? Now THAT would be disingenuous.

Europe as referenced as 'Western & Central Europe'. You know, the Europe most people mean when they say 'Europe'?

[Coito ergo sum]

Bull - in every other discussion, the US has to go up against continents - US compared to Europe is the order of the day for all economic discussions and all sorts of things. Now, when it suits you, you want to carve out your best examples and compare it to the 50 US states, Waschington DC, and Puerto Rico all combined? Now THAT would be disingenuous.

Europe as referenced as 'Western & Central Europe'. You know, the Europe most people mean when they say 'Europe'?

That's just "old Europe" -- most people when you say Europe, mean the whole thing, and not just the smug, self-righteous and pompous ones....

...that's the dirty little bait-and-switch you blighters engage in when it comes to comparisons...when it suits you, you take a few of your best numbers and say "see how superior we are" - ignoring all those not deemed suitable to be considered the real Europe. But, when you need to, you toss those unwashed nations into the mix, so that you can bolster your numbers against US when you boys lag....

[Lozzer]

Bull - in every other discussion, the US has to go up against continents - US compared to Europe is the order of the day for all economic discussions and all sorts of things. Now, when it suits you, you want to carve out your best examples and compare it to the 50 US states, Waschington DC, and Puerto Rico all combined? Now THAT would be disingenuous.

Europe as referenced as 'Western & Central Europe'. You know, the Europe most people mean when they say 'Europe'?

That's just "old Europe" -- most people when you say Europe, mean the whole thing, and not just the smug, self-righteous and pompous ones....

No, Europe as in 'gun controlled' Europe.

[Clinton Huxley]

Given the problems noted on the wiki page, and margins of error, you really can't conclude very much from the stats re USA and "Europe". If there were stats for the EU that would be an apt comparison as that would be close enough to comparing one state with another.

[Coito ergo sum]

Bull - in every other discussion, the US has to go up against continents - US compared to Europe is the order of the day for all economic discussions and all sorts of things. Now, when it suits you, you want to carve out your best examples and compare it to the 50 US states, Waschington DC, and Puerto Rico all combined? Now THAT would be disingenuous.

Europe as referenced as 'Western & Central Europe'. You know, the Europe most people mean when they say 'Europe'?

That's just "old Europe" -- most people when you say Europe, mean the whole thing, and not just the smug, self-righteous and pompous ones....

No, Europe as in 'gun controlled' Europe.

Well - since the US has a wide disparity of gun control laws, since almost all gun control legislation is at the State level, that would be even more of a reason to compare only our best states to your best. Our States behave more like independent countries in relation to gun control, and almost all criminal law is also at the State level. We don't have "federal police" except in limited areas, like the FBI and DEA. The vast majority of criminal law is handled by individual states. So, again, if you're going to only want to compare your richest states - the ones in the West and Central part of Europe - then we'll carve out our best ones too...

[Clinton Huxley]

Maybe compare the UK with any equivalently sized population in the US.

[Coito ergo sum]

Given the problems noted on the wiki page, and margins of error, you really can't conclude very much from the stats re USA and "Europe". If there were stats for the EU that would be an apt comparison as that would be close enough to comparing one state with another.

Good - then since nobody has any good stats to go on, we perhaps might not want to assume "these kinds of things" happen euphemistically/metaphorically "every fortnight" in the US....

[Coito ergo sum]

Maybe compare the UK with any equivalently sized population in the US.

That would make sense from that standpoint, but pointing out that one blip on the glob is better or worse than another isn't very helpful. Noway kicks the ass out of Paraguay, but then again, does it even matter?

It's more helpful to compare South America with Europe, or North America with Europe.

If we look at the latter - the US's 5.0 per 100,000 is jacked up, mostly by Mexico with an astounding 15 per 100,000, so that the total North American figure goes to 6.5 per 100,000, with Europe at 5.4 per 100,000. So, if we figure in our unsavory cousins to the south, you Europeans have us beaten - but it's not as dramatic as one might suppose given the hype, eh?