"Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

[JimC]

Hermit and rEv, history has many components, not just the written word. Buildings, monuments and statues from the past give a real connection to an ancient world. Do you want to join the likes of the Taliban, tearing down statues of the Buddha?

[Animavore]

All I know is I would not be happy if someone tried put up a statue of Oliver Cromwell or King Billy in Dublin.
I know which side I take here.

Which is quite a different matter to removing an existing historical one - if you read my earlier post, I indicated that adding flags or monuments to reviled historical figures now, for dodgy political reasons, could fairly be opposed. But there are heaps of statues around the world, erected in past times, of people now frowned upon. Should they all be torn down to usher in a bright, shiny future?

No it's not different. It's the same thing. If someone in the past out up a statue to commemorate an oppressor the oppressed, when they've been granted freedom, absolutely have the right to tear down the old orthodoxy.

It's not something I'd expect a colonialist to understand, really. I'm used to the excuses you guys come out with.

[Animavore]

[Animavore]

Hermit and rEv, history has many components, not just the written word. Buildings, monuments and statues from the past give a real connection to an ancient world. Do you want to join the likes of the Taliban, tearing down statues of the Buddha?

Not comparable. Jesus that's a shit analogy. It's easy for you to be complacent because a figure of a past who negatively affected your people isn't rubbed in your face.

[pErvinalia]

Hermit and rEv, history has many components, not just the written word. Buildings, monuments and statues from the past give a real connection to an ancient world. Do you want to join the likes of the Taliban, tearing down statues of the Buddha?

No, because Buddha doesn't represent enslavement and hate.

[Sean Hayden]

Pah! Lee's a pissant of an opressor, nearly all peoples everywhere suffered under worse at one time or another.

But tear it down, break it to pieces if you have too.

But do stop pretending progress is slow or non-existent, that racism of that kind is the norm rather than the exception.

These political theaters may be dangerous distractions and Id rather not let another twat benefit from them.

[pErvinalia]

It was the confederacy (represented by Lee in this case) that was the oppressor. If these fucks want the confederacy back then they should fuck off to Texas and reform it there or something. Otherwise, they are living in the wrong century and need to wake up to that fact.

[Hermit]

Hermit and rEv, history has many components, not just the written word. Buildings, monuments and statues from the past give a real connection to an ancient world. Do you want to join the likes of the Taliban, tearing down statues of the Buddha?

The Robert E. Lee monument is not going to be destroyed. It is not even going to be withdrawn from public view. It will be moved to a less conspicuous location that is nevertheless accessible to the public.

[Sean Hayden]

It was the confederacy (represented by Lee in this case) that was the oppressor. If these fucks want the confederacy back then they should fuck off to Texas and reform it there or something. Otherwise, they are living in the wrong century and need to wake up to that fact.

No they dont, they can march their sorry asses all over the place, and then right back to their insignificant fucking holes.

Or, they can share the stage in whatever reality show we're being fed now.

[JimC]

Hermit and rEv, history has many components, not just the written word. Buildings, monuments and statues from the past give a real connection to an ancient world. Do you want to join the likes of the Taliban, tearing down statues of the Buddha?

Not comparable. Jesus that's a shit analogy. It's easy for you to be complacent because a figure of a past who negatively affected your people isn't rubbed in your face.

I would agree there are differences, essentially in the motivation - clearly, the Taliban were motivated by bigotry and hate, and whoever ordered the removal of the Lee statue presumably had laudable motives. However, that does not stop me from disagreeing with its removal.

Remember, I am a centrist. Part of that is some elements of conservatism, which include a vast reluctance to wantonly remove past history for even the most politically correct of motives.

It is an interesting test of courteous debate here. I'm sure we both agree that the right-wing protestors were motivated by racism and hatred, and a counter demonstration was perfectly reasonable. However, I have offered a series of reasons as to why the removal of historical monuments for modern political reasons is unwise, and I'll stick to that, hopefully without a name-calling debate...

[JimC]

Hermit and rEv, history has many components, not just the written word. Buildings, monuments and statues from the past give a real connection to an ancient world. Do you want to join the likes of the Taliban, tearing down statues of the Buddha?

The Robert E. Lee monument is not going to be destroyed. It is not even going to be withdrawn from public view. It will be moved to a less conspicuous location that is nevertheless accessible to the public.

Well, that puts a slightly different complexion on things, although I would still say that it is interfering with the historical authenticity of the statue, and is done for PC motives, which, although they may have the best of intentions, still remain unwise.

[pErvinalia]

It was the confederacy (represented by Lee in this case) that was the oppressor. If these fucks want the confederacy back then they should fuck off to Texas and reform it there or something. Otherwise, they are living in the wrong century and need to wake up to that fact.

No they dont, they can march their sorry asses all over the place, and then right back to their insignificant fucking holes.

Or, they can share the stage in whatever reality show we're being fed now.

yes, let's pander to a demonstrably genocidal ideology. We should just sit down and have a cup of tea with them and talk it all out. Meanwhile, back in reality...

[pErvinalia]

...and is done for PC motives, which, although they may have the best of intentions...

That's a non-sequitur. PC'ism is a pejorative suggesting that things are done not for the right reasons, but instead done to make the PC person feel better about themselves.

[JimC]

...and is done for PC motives, which, although they may have the best of intentions...

That's a non-sequitur. PC'ism is a pejorative suggesting that things are done not for the right reasons, but instead done to make the PC person feel better about themselves.

No, what I meant was that the motive was involved with an instinctive and laudable anti-racism, or solidarity with American blacks facing real oppression from cops etc. but that it is only a surface, reflex motive, that indeed is probably "done to make the PC person feel better about themselves". However, motives for good or bad are insufficient to justify historical vandalism, IMO...

[pErvinalia]

If they've done it for themselves, then that's not the best of intentions. If they did it for non-PC reasons, then that would be the right intentions.