Trump and coal mines

Post Reply
User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60724
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:22 am

JimC wrote:
Forty Two wrote:Can't the protesters go, like, to China and protest their coal mines?
They are, at least, making a significant move to renewables, and away from coal, though obviously they have a long way to go. Granted, the problems caused by particulate emissions from their coal-fired generators are probably more of a motivation for this change than a desire to ameliorate global warming...
6 Countries Leading the Way in the Global Renewable Energy Boom

By Jake Schmidt

As President Trump transitioned into office, clean energy continued to overtake fossil fuels as the main source of new energy investments around the world. While the final 2016 numbers aren't yet published, preliminary estimates put the total wind and solar installations at new records. About 70 gigawatts of new solar generation and 59 gigawatts of new wind power came online in 2016. And this amounts to real dollars moving into the clean energy economy, with $287 billion in new clean energy investments in 2016, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

You can see the fruits of these investments in key countries around the world, including India, China, Chile and Mexico.

India heads steadily toward its massive renewable electricity targets.

At the end of 2016, India had installed 11 gigawatts of solar and 29 gigawatts of wind capacity, moving significantly closer to its goals of 100 gigawatts of solar and 75 gigawatts of wind by 2022. In just a few short years, India has installed nearly as much solar capacity as the three top U.S. states—California, New Jersey and Massachusetts—combined, making India the fourth-largest solar power country in the world.

Solar power in India is becoming increasingly cost-effective and rapidly scalable. In 2016, the country commissioned the largest solar plant in the world at 648 megawatts and it was built in a mere eight months—that's much quicker than the three to four years it takes to build a similar-size coal power plant. This month, an even bigger solar plant of 750 megawatts attracted record low bids of about $0.04/kWh, validating the government's decision to cancel four coal power plants and effectively choose solar as the preferred energy source for meeting India's rising energy demands.

Declining solar prices are good news for extending clean energy to more than 300 million people in India who currently lack access to the electric grid. The Natural Resources Defense Council is working with partners to provide clean energy to 40,000 women and their families in the state of Gujarat. So far, about 500 households have transitioned to using solar energy instead of diesel generators, a switch that will lead to improved quality of life and health conditions for these families. In light of President Trump's stance on climate change, the Indian minister in charge of energy, Piyush Goyal, recently reaffirmed his country's leadership by saying, "Clean energy is not something that we are working on because somebody else wants us to do it. It's a matter of faith and the faith of the leadership in India. Nothing on Earth is going to stop us from doing that."

China's renewable energy continues to set records.

China vaulted to the top of the world in solar power capacity in 2016, passing Germany, which had been the long-standing leader. The country added more than 34 gigawatts of solar capacity last year—nearly 1.5 times the amount the U.S. has installed in its entire history. China also installed more than 23 gigawatts of wind power in 2016, almost three times as much as the U.S. added that year. As the world leader in renewable energy investment, China put almost $88 billion into renewables in 2016—one-third more than the U.S.

Underscoring the Chinese focus on clean energy leadership going forward, the deputy head of China's National Energy Administration, Li Yangzhe, said in January that "renewable energy will be the pillar for China's energy structure transition." The country already employs 3.5 million people in the renewable energy industry, a number that is expected to grow to 13 million by 2020.
http://www.ecowatch.com/global-renewabl ... 68181.html

I wouldn't be so quick to suggest that China isn't seriously concerned about global warming. Since they disposed of the ideas of Mao China has proven itself to be a very rational operator. They know that the future is in renewable energy and they will dominate the world in that field. The same as they have dominated the manufacturing world. The same as they have dominated the whole of the South China sea. They make clever decisions and implement them. Probably the single advantage of authoritarianism. Stuff gets done, despite the efforts of the various lobbying groups that are opposed to any particular decision.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39276
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Animavore » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:01 am

China is investing something like over 200 billion into clean energy, and as I mentioned before, look set to become World energy leaders.

That really backfired. Didn't it? (sad trombone)
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Hermit » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:44 am

Forty Two wrote:What about civilized countries? Germany generates like 45% of its electricity from coal.
And Germans protest against it. Earlier this week, for instance, Protesters take over German coal mine, block power plant.

Similarly, protests against coal mining happen in Australia, where 73% of electricity (down from 77% in 2003) was produced by burning coal in 2015.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39276
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Animavore » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:02 am

Talking about what other countries are doing is a massive red herring. Obama's plan, which was ambitious in its scope, would've massively reduced carbon over ten years or fifteen years. It was something like the equivalent of removing every car in the States. Trump team wants to stop this so a small few can make a mint at the expense of the World. That's the fucking point.

FFS. Is there no depth of corruption and immortality Trump supporters won't defend? These were the same, hysterical cultists (seriously, it was like Ken Russell's, The Devils) chanting, "Lock her up!" at perceived government corruption by Mrs Clinton. Where's their moral outrage now? Is it a case these people are hypocrites with no integrity? Or is it possible it never really was about the economic and such reasons they claimed; that it really was about trolling the left and keeping the darkies out?
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 51222
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: 15-32-25
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Tero » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:30 pm

Resist
Taylor has joined a small but growing cohort of Republicans, conservatives, and libertarians who are bucking Republican Party orthodoxy on climate — even as President Trump has moved briskly to roll back the Obama administration’s major climate initiatives.
http://e360.yale.edu/features/climate-c ... ate-change

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Forty Two » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:46 pm

It's amazing how suddenly Trump went from "he's not even really Republican" to "Republican Party Orthodox" in less than a year.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Hermit » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:13 pm

Forty Two wrote:It's amazing how suddenly Trump went from "he's not even really Republican" to "Republican Party Orthodox" in less than a year.
Why does it amaze you? Look at his policies. Bash workers' rights, oppose abortion, deregulate the finance sector, smash environmental protections, pull the plug on funding for education, sabotage social benefit programs, increase tax benefits for the rich, send US soldiers to overseas wars... Apart from his isolationist and mercantilist streaks, which I predict won't last, he fits in very well indeed.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39276
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Animavore » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:15 pm

Sad that this even has to be made.

Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Forty Two » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:44 pm

pErvin wrote:
JimC wrote:
Forty Two wrote:Can't the protesters go, like, to China and protest their coal mines?
They are, at least, making a significant move to renewables, and away from coal, though obviously they have a long way to go. Granted, the problems caused by particulate emissions from their coal-fired generators are probably more of a motivation for this change than a desire to ameliorate global warming...
China increasing its use of coal, not making any move "away" from coal, unless a 20% increase in coal usage by 2020 is a move "away." https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/11/07/ ... l-by-2020/
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Forty Two » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:50 pm

Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:What about civilized countries? Germany generates like 45% of its electricity from coal.
And Germans protest against it. Earlier this week, for instance, Protesters take over German coal mine, block power plant.

Similarly, protests against coal mining happen in Australia, where 73% of electricity (down from 77% in 2003) was produced by burning coal in 2015.
Good, let's focus on those really dirty countries, like Oz and Germany. The US only uses coal for about 33% of its power generation, so maybe folks can fuck off for a while and protest the ones who use a much larger percentage. China generates about 70% of its power from coal and that will go up 20%, or to about 84% , by 2020.

The US looks pretty good, even if Trump boosts it a bit. :smoke:
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Forty Two » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:07 pm

Animavore wrote:Talking about what other countries are doing is a massive red herring.
It's no more of a read herring than people from other countries talking about what the US is doing. Why would it be a red herring to talk about what Germany or china are doing, but not a red herring to talk about what the US is doing?
Animavore wrote: Obama's plan, which was ambitious in its scope, would've massively reduced carbon over ten years or fifteen years.
We've been reducing our carbon output since long before Obama was in office.
Animavore wrote: It was something like the equivalent of removing every car in the States. Trump team wants to stop this so a small few can make a mint at the expense of the World. That's the fucking point.
Well, why won't Germany and China and such reduce their coal percentages and bring them down to 33% or thereabouts? Are they doing it for those evil reasons, or are they just doing the best they can and behaving as civilized altruistic countries and are victims of circumstance?

Could it be that the administration sees coal as a good way to produce needed energy to try to further reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources, which, if reduced, will help us both economically and from a foreign policy perspective?

Animavore wrote: FFS. Is there no depth of corruption and immortality Trump supporters won't defend?
Well, you haven't identified a corruption. Being in favor of coal production is not corruption, and being against coal production and in favor of other sources of energy is not corruption - that is, neither is corruption in and of itself. Now, cronyism, where direct subsidies are paid to "green energy" companies that wind up defunct or fail to produce any real results, now THAT is closer to corruption. When a big donor or bundler runs a green energy company, and the Administration pays hundreds of millions of dollars out to them, well, that kinda smells.

I think the allegation against Trump is that he is loosing restrictions on coal. has he made or proposed direct payments to coal companies? Has he funneled largesse to his donors/bundlers?
Animavore wrote:
These were the same, hysterical cultists (seriously, it was like Ken Russell's, The Devils) chanting, "Lock her up!" at perceived government corruption by Mrs Clinton.
Perceived? Did you read the emails? There WAS corruption. The Hillary Clinton campaign worked with the DNC to defeat Bernie Sanders, all while the leaders of the DNC claimed to be neutral in the Democratic Primary battle. One DNC leader even funneled questions for town hall meetings or debates to Hillary Clinton so that she would have them in advance. Her "charity" received millions of dollars from foreign governments, and such donations resulted in access to government -- pay-for-play. Like the FBI agent said to Henry Hill's wife, Karen, in Goodfellas - "Don't give me that babe in the woods routine..."
Animavore wrote: Where's their moral outrage now?
Seriously, do you have anything other than a policy difference here? Being in favor of coal or oil or nuclear is not corruption. Do you have anything like this: http://dailysignal.com/2011/11/14/repor ... a-backers/ 80% of green energy loans went to Obama backers.... lol -- even that's not technically criminal, but it sure as heck stinks. So, do you have information that Trump backers are getting subsidies or federal loans, or Solyndra-like donations. Heck, even if you did have such information, it would only put him on par with the last administration, and if you want to ask "where's the outrage?" perhaps you might start there.

Animavore wrote:
Is it a case these people are hypocrites with no integrity? Or is it possible it never really was about the economic and such reasons they claimed; that it really was about trolling the left and keeping the darkies out?
It depends - what's your allegation? What did Trump do, other than announce a plan to increase coal production, which is "corrupt?"
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Hermit » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:48 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:What about civilized countries? Germany generates like 45% of its electricity from coal.
And Germans protest against it. Earlier this week, for instance, Protesters take over German coal mine, block power plant.

Similarly, protests against coal mining happen in Australia, where 73% of electricity (down from 77% in 2003) was produced by burning coal in 2015.
Good, let's focus on those really dirty countries, like Oz and Germany.
No. Let's oppose coal mining and encourage the development of electricity production by renewable means wherever we are and whichever way we can. I don't really mind if the USA leads the way in a desirable trend at all. Makes for a pleasant change.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60724
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:22 am

Forty Two wrote:
Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:What about civilized countries? Germany generates like 45% of its electricity from coal.
And Germans protest against it. Earlier this week, for instance, Protesters take over German coal mine, block power plant.

Similarly, protests against coal mining happen in Australia, where 73% of electricity (down from 77% in 2003) was produced by burning coal in 2015.
Good, let's focus on those really dirty countries, like Oz and Germany. The US only uses coal for about 33% of its power generation, so maybe folks can fuck off for a while and protest the ones who use a much larger percentage. China generates about 70% of its power from coal and that will go up 20%, or to about 84% , by 2020.
Sounds like someone needs to go back to school and learn some basic maths. Please don't make me explain why you have got these figures wrong.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:23 am

Simple addition seems to be the problem along with propaganda.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 51222
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: 15-32-25
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Tero » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:35 am

Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests