Utah official state firearm

[Seth]

Uh? we never adopted the weapons of the invaders... we used stens.

The French Resistance commonly used captured German weapons, as would have been sensible to do.

Then there's the one-shot Liberty pistol we dropped on France by the tens of thousands. A stamped sheet-metal single shot handgun with five spare rounds of .45 ACP in the grip that was to be used by the French resistance to kill a German and take his weapons. Cost about $1.75 to make.

I didn't know about that.
-That's dearer than the Sten, which I think cost seven shillings and sixpence. - That's 371/2 pence.

you silly

Guns in America are a profit deal

read Smedley

Damned right they are! An excellent example of free-market capitalism. We've got a great selection of the finest firearms in the world at reasonable prices as a result of demand, and this is in spite of government interference and meddling in the firearms market.

[.Morticia.]

Feeling twitchy, Seth? Feeling belittled for your pathetic gun-love? Vein throbbing in your forehead? Better git down to your compound, git your fatigues on and lock and load. Absurd little plastic soldier.

That Seth chap would not be welcomed onto the Brit Cavalry sir as he is nothing but a bounder, does not know his place in genteel society. We also know that blowhards who brag about how big there guns are have the smallest dicks. The chap called Seth’s dick must be only half an inch long for all the bragging he does about his muzzle velocity and all the rest of that crap.

interesting

my dear friend carries a very small gun

[Seth]

Feeling twitchy, Seth? Feeling belittled for your pathetic gun-love? Vein throbbing in your forehead? Better git down to your compound, git your fatigues on and lock and load. Absurd little plastic soldier.

That Seth chap would not be welcomed onto the Brit Cavalry sir as he is nothing but a bounder, does not know his place in genteel society.

You mean like the 500 who rode into the valley of death and got themselves slaughtered simply to preserve the honor of the regiment and the reputation of the officers who commanded them who did NOT ride with them?

Dumb motherfuckers.

I prefer the American tactical plan, which is to give the enemy every opportunity to die for his country or beliefs being a sneaky bastard who hides behind trees and stone walls and ambushes the Redcoats when they come marching by.

We also know that blowhards who brag about how big there guns are have the smallest dicks.

You "know" this, do you? Where's your critically robust scientific evidence that supports this claim? Up your ass I presume.

The chap called Seth’s dick must be only half an inch long for all the bragging he does about his muzzle velocity and all the rest of that crap.

Well, the salient point is that regardless of the size of my dick, I can make your head vanish in a pink mist from any range from zero meters to about 1200 meters, and punch holes in your torso out to 2500 meters, so your opinions about my dick are meaningless, whereas my marksmanship skills are extremely meaningful to people who piss me off sufficiently.

[Seth]

Feeling twitchy, Seth? Feeling belittled for your pathetic gun-love? Vein throbbing in your forehead? Better git down to your compound, git your fatigues on and lock and load. Absurd little plastic soldier.

That Seth chap would not be welcomed onto the Brit Cavalry sir as he is nothing but a bounder, does not know his place in genteel society. We also know that blowhards who brag about how big there guns are have the smallest dicks. The chap called Seth’s dick must be only half an inch long for all the bragging he does about his muzzle velocity and all the rest of that crap.

interesting

my dear friend carries a very small gun

"This is my rifle, this is my gun. This for fighting, this is for fun..." Full Metal Jacket

[Gallstones]

Terms like unanimously barbaric are extreme misrepresentations and intentionally emotive. Equating private gun ownership with ablation, stoning, child marriage and medieval barbaric law is hyperbolic and emotive. If the objections don't stem from fear, then what is it?

People who describe private gun ownership using that kind of terminology seem to think being passive is somehow more civilized, and they seem fine with being passive. I am not, I am not fine with being passive. I will not ever be a willing victim. I will protect myself, make myself unattractive as a victim and retaliate with all the force I have available should someone try to make me a victim.

I also find it quite rich when a citizen of a nation supporting a monarchy, like Brits, criticisms the US for holding to tradition. Our rights are not quaint tradition.

I'm find this dead end debate tiresome of late. If I change my mind I'll link to the other threads where I have defended my POV, but I'm not motivated to cc them here at this time.

That's a pity because I would be interested. For the record, this is an ongoing debate at my home...my husband is pro gun, I am not. When he goes away, he insists I have the Glock at my ready to defend myself against intruders. I refuse and hide it after he leaves. The last time this happened I forgot where I hid it, you can imagine what an ordeal that was.

Mai, surly you recognize that it is irresponsible to hide a firearm and not remember where you put it, thus not knowing where it is?

People who fear or loathe guns should not have them. They will feel better about that and so will others.
You should not be coerced into having one if you don't want it and/or are not comfortable having it. It should be your choice. Would he feel comfortable enough for you to have a dog and a cell phone? Would you feel comfortable enough with that?

[Pensioner]

Feeling twitchy, Seth? Feeling belittled for your pathetic gun-love? Vein throbbing in your forehead? Better git down to your compound, git your fatigues on and lock and load. Absurd little plastic soldier.

That Seth chap would not be welcomed onto the Brit Cavalry sir as he is nothing but a bounder, does not know his place in genteel society.

You mean like the 500 who rode into the valley of death and got themselves slaughtered simply to preserve the honor of the regiment and the reputation of the officers who commanded them who did NOT ride with them?

Dumb motherfuckers.

I prefer the American tactical plan, which is to give the enemy every opportunity to die for his country or beliefs being a sneaky bastard who hides behind trees and stone walls and ambushes the Redcoats when they come marching by.

We also know that blowhards who brag about how big there guns are have the smallest dicks.

You "know" this, do you? Where's your critically robust scientific evidence that supports this claim? Up your ass I presume.

The chap called Seth’s dick must be only half an inch long for all the bragging he does about his muzzle velocity and all the rest of that crap.

Well, the salient point is that regardless of the size of my dick, I can make your head vanish in a pink mist from any range from zero meters to about 1200 meters, and punch holes in your torso out to 2500 meters, so your opinions about my dick are meaningless, whereas my marksmanship skills are extremely meaningful to people who piss me off sufficiently.

I'm shitting myself Seth as I used to fire 120mm guns and the optics on my big gun I could see a pimple on your arse at 2500 meters.

[Gallstones]

Those who persist in offering nothing more than caricatures of the private gun owner do their argument no service. Caricatures are empty of fact, dismissive of reality, silly and invalid. They are displays of ignorance, petty bitterness, and suggest that the caricaturists know they can not support their position, otherwise have no argument, and are unworthy of a response.

However, they do play well to the choir and provide many chuckles I'm sure.

[Seth]

Feeling twitchy, Seth? Feeling belittled for your pathetic gun-love? Vein throbbing in your forehead? Better git down to your compound, git your fatigues on and lock and load. Absurd little plastic soldier.

That Seth chap would not be welcomed onto the Brit Cavalry sir as he is nothing but a bounder, does not know his place in genteel society.

You mean like the 500 who rode into the valley of death and got themselves slaughtered simply to preserve the honor of the regiment and the reputation of the officers who commanded them who did NOT ride with them?

Dumb motherfuckers.

I prefer the American tactical plan, which is to give the enemy every opportunity to die for his country or beliefs being a sneaky bastard who hides behind trees and stone walls and ambushes the Redcoats when they come marching by.

We also know that blowhards who brag about how big there guns are have the smallest dicks.

You "know" this, do you? Where's your critically robust scientific evidence that supports this claim? Up your ass I presume.

The chap called Seth’s dick must be only half an inch long for all the bragging he does about his muzzle velocity and all the rest of that crap.

Well, the salient point is that regardless of the size of my dick, I can make your head vanish in a pink mist from any range from zero meters to about 1200 meters, and punch holes in your torso out to 2500 meters, so your opinions about my dick are meaningless, whereas my marksmanship skills are extremely meaningful to people who piss me off sufficiently.

I'm shitting myself Seth as I used to fire 120mm guns and the optics on my big gun I could see a pimple on your arse at 2500 meters.

Overkill. The .50 BMG is sufficient to the purpose, or the .416 Chey-Tac or Barrett for that matter. Besides, I doubt you get to take your big gun home with you, much less snoop and poop in the boonies with it to take your enemy all unaware.

[Pensioner]

Those who persist in offering nothing more than caricatures of the private gun owner do their argument no service. Caricatures are empty of fact, dismissive of reality, silly and invalid. They are displays of ignorance, petty bitterness, and suggest that the caricaturists know they can not support their position, otherwise have no argument, and are unworthy of a response.

However, they do play well to the choir and provide many chuckles I'm sure.

We had grandchildren on a sleep over last weekend and I must admit that if I lived in America
I probably would have had pump action shotgun at the ready to protect them. Luckily I live in the UK so it not necessary to have a weapon like that to hand. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

[maiforpeace]

Terms like unanimously barbaric are extreme misrepresentations and intentionally emotive. Equating private gun ownership with ablation, stoning, child marriage and medieval barbaric law is hyperbolic and emotive. If the objections don't stem from fear, then what is it?

People who describe private gun ownership using that kind of terminology seem to think being passive is somehow more civilized, and they seem fine with being passive. I am not, I am not fine with being passive. I will not ever be a willing victim. I will protect myself, make myself unattractive as a victim and retaliate with all the force I have available should someone try to make me a victim.

I also find it quite rich when a citizen of a nation supporting a monarchy, like Brits, criticisms the US for holding to tradition. Our rights are not quaint tradition.

I'm find this dead end debate tiresome of late. If I change my mind I'll link to the other threads where I have defended my POV, but I'm not motivated to cc them here at this time.

That's a pity because I would be interested. For the record, this is an ongoing debate at my home...my husband is pro gun, I am not. When he goes away, he insists I have the Glock at my ready to defend myself against intruders. I refuse and hide it after he leaves. The last time this happened I forgot where I hid it, you can imagine what an ordeal that was.

Mai, surly you recognize that it is irresponsible to hide a firearm and not remember where you put it, thus not knowing where it is?

People who fear or loathe guns should not have them. They will feel better about that and so will others.
You should not be coerced into having one if you don't want it and/or are not comfortable having it. It should be your choice. Would he feel comfortable enough for you to have a dog and a cell phone? Would you feel comfortable enough with that?

I do now. (know it's irresponsible to forget where a gun is hidden...like I said, it was an ordeal)

I'm not adverse to him having a gun when he's around, and respect his right to own one. So, when he's around, I don't want to know where it is so he can keep it in his private places. Unfortunately living in one home doesn't make it easy for both of our needs to be met so when he has to leave and can't take it with him, and since I'm not going to use it ever, I will stash it.

Those who persist in offering nothing more than caricatures of the private gun owner do their argument no service. Caricatures are empty of fact, dismissive of reality, silly and invalid. They are displays of ignorance, petty bitterness, and suggest that the caricaturists know they can not support their position, otherwise have no argument, and are unworthy of a response.

However, they do play well to the choir and provide many chuckles I'm sure.

We had grandchildren on a sleep over last weekend and I must admit that if I lived in America
I probably would have had pump action shotgun at the ready to protect them. Luckily I live in the UK so it not necessary to have a weapon like that to hand. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

There's no more reason to own a gun here than anywhere...it's not like the US is less safe than the UK. I've lived here all my life and never been a victim of a crime...the two times I was a crime victim was getting robbed at a hotel in the UK, and being pickpocketed in France.

[JimC]

I do not think it fair or reasonable or good logic to label a culture you aren't familiar with and don't fully understand as "sick" because one aspect of it contradicts one's idealism on that one aspect.

The US is not England, or Australia or France or Germany or any other western nation. We are what we are, we have our own history and our own cultural nuances and our own kinks to be worked out. One can not legitmately extrapolate what we should do or what we should want or what we should think based on one's culture separate from the US.

We should be just what we are--what else is there?

I have heard those very same words from Muslims defending the situation of women in their countries, or more aberrant practices. If some other societies regard unanimously barbaric a regular situation in your nation, the sane thing to do it's -at least- to reconsider it carefully and defend it with logic or change the practice if you find reasons in the arguments. If you are serious about maintaining the "traditional and cultural value" of a law, then you disallow yourself to comment, criticise or demand the abolition of ablation, stoning to death to adulterers, child marriage or any other medieval barbaric law.

We have had the right to private ownership if firearms since the Constitution was initiated. Your fear of them is not our fear of them and your emotional reaction is not logic or argument. The private ownership of firearms is in no way equivalent to any of the atrocities you list.

I have already invested many hours defending my POV, I'm just not motivated to keep going on and on and on and on with people who have shut their minds to considering it because they are afraid.

I agree with you to an extent. Sisifo was definitely stretching an analogy when he compared private ownership of firearms to barbaric muslim practices which deliberately and cruelly hurt other people. One could own a firearm and never hurt anybody, perhaps only using it on a firing range. And I take the point that ultimately, it is a decision for the American people.

However, I still personally view the extent to which you allow the ownership and carrying of handguns in particular to be excessive, and likely to lead to a greater number of gun-related deaths than a situation of tighter controls. I also feel uncomfortable with the view that carrying a concealed pistol is a citizen's true defense against criminals. A little too reminiscent of the Hobbesian "war of all against all" for me...

[Gallstones]

Those who persist in offering nothing more than caricatures of the private gun owner do their argument no service. Caricatures are empty of fact, dismissive of reality, silly and invalid. They are displays of ignorance, petty bitterness, and suggest that the caricaturists know they can not support their position, otherwise have no argument, and are unworthy of a response.

However, they do play well to the choir and provide many chuckles I'm sure.

We had grandchildren on a sleep over last weekend and I must admit that if I lived in America
I probably would have had pump action shotgun at the ready to protect them. Luckily I live in the UK so it not necessary to have a weapon like that to hand. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Pen, I haven't locked my front door in all the eight years I've lived in my house. I don't even know where the key is.
Most people don't lock their vehicles either.
I can walk the streets alone anytime of the day or night without fear, except for maybe stray dogs, bears, cats, deer and moose.

I do realize that this is not the same for everywhere in the US. But Montana has a majority of gun ownership and very liberal gun laws, yet our violent crime rate is quite low. The most recent murder was a stabbing, another was vehicular. A person is in greater danger from a drunk driver than from being shot.

So guns can't be the cause.

[Gallstones]

Mai if there are weapons in the house you have to know where they are at all times.
You have children don't you?

[Pensioner]

Terms like unanimously barbaric are extreme misrepresentations and intentionally emotive. Equating private gun ownership with ablation, stoning, child marriage and medieval barbaric law is hyperbolic and emotive. If the objections don't stem from fear, then what is it?

People who describe private gun ownership using that kind of terminology seem to think being passive is somehow more civilized, and they seem fine with being passive. I am not, I am not fine with being passive. I will not ever be a willing victim. I will protect myself, make myself unattractive as a victim and retaliate with all the force I have available should someone try to make me a victim.

I also find it quite rich when a citizen of a nation supporting a monarchy, like Brits, criticisms the US for holding to tradition. Our rights are not quaint tradition.

I'm find this dead end debate tiresome of late. If I change my mind I'll link to the other threads where I have defended my POV, but I'm not motivated to cc them here at this time.

That's a pity because I would be interested. For the record, this is an ongoing debate at my home...my husband is pro gun, I am not. When he goes away, he insists I have the Glock at my ready to defend myself against intruders. I refuse and hide it after he leaves. The last time this happened I forgot where I hid it, you can imagine what an ordeal that was.

Mai, surly you recognize that it is irresponsible to hide a firearm and not remember where you put it, thus not knowing where it is?

People who fear or loathe guns should not have them. They will feel better about that and so will others.
You should not be coerced into having one if you don't want it and/or are not comfortable having it. It should be your choice. Would he feel comfortable enough for you to have a dog and a cell phone? Would you feel comfortable enough with that?

I do now. (know it's irresponsible to forget where a gun is hidden...like I said, it was an ordeal)

I'm not adverse to him having a gun when he's around, and respect his right to own one. So, when he's around, I don't want to know where it is so he can keep it in his private places. Unfortunately living in one home doesn't make it easy for both of our needs to be met so when he has to leave and can't take it with him, and since I'm not going to use it ever, I will stash it.

Those who persist in offering nothing more than caricatures of the private gun owner do their argument no service. Caricatures are empty of fact, dismissive of reality, silly and invalid. They are displays of ignorance, petty bitterness, and suggest that the caricaturists know they can not support their position, otherwise have no argument, and are unworthy of a response.

However, they do play well to the choir and provide many chuckles I'm sure.

We had grandchildren on a sleep over last weekend and I must admit that if I lived in America
I probably would have had pump action shotgun at the ready to protect them. Luckily I live in the UK so it not necessary to have a weapon like that to hand. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

There's no more reason to own a gun here than anywhere...it's not like the US is less safe than the UK. I've lived here all my life and never been a victim of a crime...the two times I was a crime victim was getting robbed at a hotel in the UK, and being pickpocketed in France.

Fair comment.

[Svartalf]

Even as a European, I got lots of good to say about private ownership of weapons.

a) it makes you feel more secure in a world where help is minutes away when you need them within the next few seconds

b) Given what I see of our gummint's practices over the last 20 or so years, and the fact that our police is much better at oppressing folk than at protecting them, being weaponless when facing the Man is a definite cause for concern.