The "Sanity" Rally. Is Jon Stewart naive?

[Robert_S]

That's a personal attack? I mean maybe if I called him a wanker or something. I was expressing exactly what I thought of the entire "oh noes the left started it I can't remember the entire Bush administration and the noise conservative 'leaders' were making."

I guess I'll try and find a slightly less expressive way to say what I think of that revisionist piece of bullcrap next time.

Saying "fuck you" is probably a personal attack, unless it was being interposed in an interrogative sense or as an offer.

Calling him a wanker would probably not raise an eyebrow around here. Wanking is viewed quite favorably at rationalia.com, I have found.

I disagree, I don't see "Fuck You" as a personal attack, more like a violation of our Play Nice guideline.

[Robert_S]

I would like to know who on MSNBC has both the popularity and the record of gross inaccuracy to compare with Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck.

[JimC]

That's a personal attack? I mean maybe if I called him a wanker or something. I was expressing exactly what I thought of the entire "oh noes the left started it I can't remember the entire Bush administration and the noise conservative 'leaders' were making."

I guess I'll try and find a slightly less expressive way to say what I think of that revisionist piece of bullcrap next time.

Saying "fuck you" is probably a personal attack, unless it was being interposed in an interrogative sense or as an offer.

Calling him a wanker would probably not raise an eyebrow around here. Wanking is viewed quite favorably at rationalia.com, I have found.

I disagree, I don't see "Fuck You" as a personal attack, more like a violation of our Play Nice guideline.

Well, it's certainly not worth instant suspension, but it does warrant a reminder...

Instant suspension is of course a possiblilty when speaking disparagingly about the inherent beauty of gin, cardigans and quadratic equations, particularly in combination...

[Robert_S]

That's a personal attack? I mean maybe if I called him a wanker or something. I was expressing exactly what I thought of the entire "oh noes the left started it I can't remember the entire Bush administration and the noise conservative 'leaders' were making."

I guess I'll try and find a slightly less expressive way to say what I think of that revisionist piece of bullcrap next time.

Saying "fuck you" is probably a personal attack, unless it was being interposed in an interrogative sense or as an offer.

Calling him a wanker would probably not raise an eyebrow around here. Wanking is viewed quite favorably at rationalia.com, I have found.

I disagree, I don't see "Fuck You" as a personal attack, more like a violation of our Play Nice guideline.

Well, it's certainly not worth instant suspension, but it does warrant a reminder...

Instant suspension is of course a possiblilty when speaking disparagingly about the inherent beauty of gin, cardigans and quadratic equations, particularly in combination...

I don't much care for quadratic equations.

[JimC]

I'll be keeping an eye on you, sunshine...

[Coito ergo sum]

Oh, so you admit that CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC are all centrist then? You are one of the very rare right wingers who refuses to believe the old canard about the media being liberal and left of center?

I didn't admit that. Stop putting words in my mouth. I admitted what I wrote, nothing more.

And, I'm not a fucking right winger. Dude, what's wrong with you? Just because I can be objective enough to acknowledge that there are plenty of left wing assholes doesn't make me a right winger.

CNN is slightly left, but more unbiased than either MSNBC or FoxNews.

ABC is plainly left.

CBS and NBC not so much.

In my opinion.

[Coito ergo sum]

I would like to know who on MSNBC has both the popularity and the record of gross inaccuracy to compare with Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck.

Olbermann, Maddow, Matthews, Schultz.

[Coito ergo sum]

MSNBC is at least as vitriolic as Fox

Quoted for the lulz. I think this thread has run its course.

It's only lulz to you because you tend to agree with what they say.

You should have seen Maddow and Matthews and Olbermann, all together on election night, they were beside themselves, and playing spin-doctor ---

Maddow suggested at one point that the election was actually a victory for democrats because they didn't lose more seats. She suggested that not losing more seats indicated that there was not as much dissatisfaction as expected. They were spinning like tops. Olbermann rants (or ranted) on a daily basis and you could almost see the spittle flying out of his mouth.

[eXcommunicate]

I would like to know who on MSNBC has both the popularity and the record of gross inaccuracy to compare with Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck.

Olbermann, Maddow, Matthews, Schultz.

Point out their factual inaccuracies and outright lies, then we'll talk.

[Coito ergo sum]

I would like to know who on MSNBC has both the popularity and the record of gross inaccuracy to compare with Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck.

Olbermann, Maddow, Matthews, Schultz.

Point out their factual inaccuracies and outright lies, then we'll talk.

We were talking about bias.

If you're alleging someone else has factual inaccuracies, then you first. I'll be happy to respond that equivalent persons on the left also have made factual inaccuracies.

At this point, however, the conversation was about left bias vs right bias.

[GreyICE]

Oh, so you admit that CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC are all centrist then? You are one of the very rare right wingers who refuses to believe the old canard about the media being liberal and left of center?

I didn't admit that. Stop putting words in my mouth. I admitted what I wrote, nothing more.

And, I'm not a fucking right winger. Dude, what's wrong with you? Just because I can be objective enough to acknowledge that there are plenty of left wing assholes doesn't make me a right winger.

CNN is slightly left, but more unbiased than either MSNBC or FoxNews.

ABC is plainly left.

CBS and NBC not so much.

In my opinion.

But then we're back to comparing apples and airplanes. You can't think MSNBC is larger than any of the organizations listed. And Fox news is indubitably the largest right wing news source.

So you're back to comparing the most mainstream news organization that leans right to marginal left wing news organizations. Just as you are left comparing mainstream pundits with viewships in the 10s of millions to borderline organizations that mostly show up as joke items in news stories.

You draw this equivalence between the two, but it does not exist.

P.S. If someone was being irrational about insisting that creationism and evolution were on the same level, if someone claimed that the fact that there are neo-nazis who make irrational claims about evolution to justify social Darwinism meant that evolution had the same amount of irrational claims as creationism, I would call them a creationist. That's just fair, wouldn't you agree?

[Coito ergo sum]

Oh, so you admit that CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC are all centrist then? You are one of the very rare right wingers who refuses to believe the old canard about the media being liberal and left of center?

I didn't admit that. Stop putting words in my mouth. I admitted what I wrote, nothing more.

And, I'm not a fucking right winger. Dude, what's wrong with you? Just because I can be objective enough to acknowledge that there are plenty of left wing assholes doesn't make me a right winger.

CNN is slightly left, but more unbiased than either MSNBC or FoxNews.

ABC is plainly left.

CBS and NBC not so much.

In my opinion.

But then we're back to comparing apples and airplanes. You can't think MSNBC is larger than any of the organizations listed. And Fox news is indubitably the largest right wing news source.

So you're back to comparing the most mainstream news organization that leans right

Most mainstream news organizations plainly lean left. There is hardly a reporter or commentator that isn't left of center.

FoxNews is the only "right wing" news source on television. The rest lean left, including MSNBC which I find to be the most biased.

to marginal left wing news organizations. Just as you are left comparing mainstream pundits with viewships in the 10s of millions to borderline organizations that mostly show up as joke items in news stories.

You draw this equivalence between the two, but it does not exist.

I draw the equivalence between MSNBC and Fox News - they are both on 24-7 and they are just a few clicks of the remote control away from each other. I don't know how many watch Fox and how many watch MSNBC - they are both equally biased. The number of viewers is irrelevant.

[Robert_S]

Glenn Beck. Give me the left's equivalent if that fucker.

[GreyICE]

Of course the number of viewers is relevant. Of course the amount of influence is relevant. Does a guy with a Youtube channel and 12 viewers have the same level of cultural influence as Jon Stewart? Of course not! What's the difference? Number of viewers.

I remember how this all started. I really do. I remember the accusations and theories that Clinton hired assassins, I remember the insanity that percolated through the Right Wing as criticism of Clinton reached an insane fever pitch, with the hysteria reaching levels that are hard to comprehend. Shall I dig up for you "Goodbye to the Black Helicopters?" World Net Daily was relevant then. NewsMax was relevant then.

Do we remember the 2000 elections? Bush was a cause celebre for the christian conservatives and the right wing. Most left wing pundits joked about Gore, and the general consensus on the left wing was that Gore was basically a donkey. Criticism of Bush was reasonably mild. September 11th. Remember that? Everyone rallied behind the president. Approval ratings in the low 90s. Was there a culture of insane criticism? No. Was there a culture of attacking the right wing? No. At one point the polls hit 92/6/1 in approve/don't know/disapprove. 92/6/1. Look at those numbers for a second. ONE PERCENT of the American Populace disapproved of George Bush.

ONE PERCENT

Imagine that. Then the Iraq War. Opposition to the war existed... and got told that they were traitors. What was the response? A spirited defense of the right to protest. Imagine that. A defense of the right to protest.

Then WMDs. There were none. We were attacked for not supporting the war and told it had nothing to do with WMDs. Not supporting the troops, want us to fail, etc. etc. We were the Al Qaeda's extra column.

Then Kerry. Kerry was attacked for 'voting against every major military system the military uses.' Kerry was attacked for his military service. Kerry was attacked as a coward. This wasn't a bunch of wankers with Youtube videos, this was things that George Bush was saying on national TV and in campaign ads. Kerry got crucified. For what? Well, mostly lies. Not his, other people's. There was no rational debate in 2004.

Is it any wonder that most of the people looked at this, and said "fuck the Republicans, and fuck this political debate system?" Oh no. So one side wanted to have a rational conversation, and the other one flung poo, and then we say that the rational ones either left the room or shrugged their shoulders and started flinging poo back? Even today you're reduced to comparing the flagship conservative news station to what? MSNBC? It's like the size of CNN. Together the two of them almost have someone in America who cares.

This ain't political anymore, both sides are equal? Oh no. I know who the fuck to blame. I know who the fuck started this. I know who fucked the political process. I know what the fuck happened. Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.

Both sides are not equal. One side needs to admit they made the mistakes, admit that history is history, and work together to clean up the mess that everyone is now in. Because I am not fucking interested in hearing about how 'oh no both sides are so horrible,' when there is one side that is horrible and one side that is rational. Fuck the idea that creationism and evolution are equal. Fuck the idea that global warming deniers and scientists should have a dialog to determine the truth. And fuck the people who think that the right wing didn't do jack shit and we all sort of just staggered together into this mess.

I don't fucking buy it. The same attitudes and idiocies that created this are just going to put us right back into it if we don't clean house and admit what has happened in the past. And look, the Teabaggers have come along, to 'restore sanity' by nominating creationists.

[Coito ergo sum]

Glenn Beck. Give me the left's equivalent if that fucker.

Kieth Olbermann.