Tony Blair attacks atheism

[Gawdzilla Sama]

*waits for Hitchens to react*

[maiforpeace]

In the original Times article he's quoted as saying:

Tony Blair said that many of the challenges facing the world today were similar to those that confronted Jesus and Mohammed, the founders of Christianity and Islam.

“Each was made to feel an outsider. Each stood out against the conventional teaching of the time. Each believed in the universal appeal of God to humanity. Each was a change-maker.”

Then he says:

"We face an aggressive secular attack from without. We face the threat of extremism from within.”

Arguing that there was “no hope” from atheists who scorn God, he said the best way to confront the secularist agenda was for all faiths to unite against it

So that atheists are made to feel like outsiders?

Fucking hypocrite.

Tony Blair doesn't make me feel so bad about Bush. At least Bush had the excuse of being a dumb shit.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You know, this really makes me think we're winning.

[Clinton Huxley]

Tony Blair doesn't make me feel so bad about Bush. At least Bush had the excuse of being a dumb shit.

Aye, Blair has come to this position after actually thinking about it. That makes him much scarier than Bush...

[Clinton Huxley]

You know, this really makes me think we're winning.

Hmmmm. People sure are rattled but in concert with comments like this we have the UK Govt setting up bodies to consult with different faiths re climate change. Can't wait to see what the Sikh position on North Atlantic desalination is

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You know, this really makes me think we're winning.

Hmmmm. People sure are rattled but in concert with comments like this we have the UK Govt setting up bodies to consult with different faiths re climate change. Can't wait to see what the Sikh position on North Atlantic desalination is

Time to man the barricades. ¡No Pasarán!

[floppit]

Okay, floppit, I see you said the word 'secularist', as mentioned in the op ... you're right, it doesn't appear in the speech ...

Still, the implication of what is said seems to be that faith is a 'force for good' and secularism is in opposition to that, ie a 'force for evil'.

I'm less sure of that, not that I'm saying he doesn't think it just that he didn't say it. He says that he 'sees' the good faith can do, which is absolutely a subjective comment but not one dressed as factual, when something is prefixed with 'I think' or even 'I see' it refers to individual perception and in that sense I cannot disagree - I believe he does 'see' that, I believe he 'sees' what he seeks to see. In addition he isn't playing the whole good versus evil thing as religion versus secularism, he refers also to the infighting in religion as a significant challenge to it's survival, he also says it's wrong. Putting thse 2 issues together makes it strained to then argue his suggestion is as simple as religion = good, secularism = bad.

Those who scorn God" ... meaning secularists/atheists ... Well that's just plain wrong. We don't scorn something we don't even have a belief in.

Great then he doesn't mean us, I'm sure someone somewhere scorns god. But in addition the whole quote reads:

Those who scorn God and those who do violence in God’s name, both represent views of religion.

So it is not the atheists set against believers it is two views of faith he believes do it no favours. And to be fair, we have at times done a little scorning.... FSM? He doesn't suggest these views of faith are evil, he suggests they will not further the cause of faith.

That aside, what Blair means there is those who scorn 'good', again implying secularists/atheists are a force for evil. The whole thing is all about how faith is required for morality and the challenge is to confront immorality in the form of secularism/atheism and religious extremism.

Ok - but try to find a quote for that because I can't. What I can find is a man who has a declared faith saying what he would LIKE to see faith mean, and what he believes he has 'seen' as possible.

Now for the gloves off bit.

I believe in democracy based on informed choice so the last thing I would want to happen is for politicians to keep quiet about issues like faith. There's no surprise to me that a self declared believer thinks faith is good - hardly new, hardly mindblowing. What is surprising to me (and positive) is that he has come out with an opinion equally unpalatable to many believers as it is to non believers, and he has done so in advance of the opportunity for political power a second time around. Last time I think he kept much quieter until voted in which I have far more issue with than declaring views in advance. If this was an attack, and I can find no direct attack on atheists - but I can find direct attack on fundamental believers:

We are people of faith. We see how faith shapes our lives and the lives of others. We watch, in sadness, as it is abused to do wrong.

Last of all this was from the start a religious address to religious listeners. That context matters, it gives him the right to say 'We are people of faith' without it excluding atheists because it was a religious conference!

Sorry but, I think him going to war was pants, turning the Labour movement into a right wing enterprise is pants, his belief in god is pants and much much more but that speech is at the least open and was certainly critical of how religion is used by people who believe, more so than it was of atheists.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

How I wish somebody would assassinate that useless cunt.

I'd like to hit his head with an iron bar - and keep hitting until the point where only a forensic scientist could tell you it ever was a head to begin with.

[Thinking Aloud]

I expect this thread to be quote-mined by Blair/faith supporters as evidence that everything he said about secular types is true.

[Pappa]

You know, this really makes me think we're winning.

+1

It's like death throes.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You know, this really makes me think we're winning.

+1

It's like death throes.

More like Okinawa, actually. The hardest fighting remains. (I'll guard California in case they try a sneak attack again, you lead the charge onto the Kanto Plain.)

[klr]

You know, this really makes me think we're winning.

+1

It's like death throes.

More like Okinawa, actually. The hardest fighting remains. (I'll guard California in case they try a sneak attack again, you lead the charge onto the Kanto Plain.)

Watch out for the balloons ...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You know, this really makes me think we're winning.

+1

It's like death throes.

More like Okinawa, actually. The hardest fighting remains. (I'll guard California in case they try a sneak attack again, you lead the charge onto the Kanto Plain.)

Watch out for the balloons ...

I won't be in Washington or Oregon, or even as far north as Sacred Mento. I'll be coordinating the traffic in black market gasoline across the border with Mexico. As the US is rationing gas and Mexico isn't, I can make about $0.25 a gallon on the stuff, good money for the time. Later I'll found one of the largest hotels in L.A. and make a name in the movie industry.

[klr]

"I love the smell of impending derails in the morning ..."

[Feck]

Sort of back to the OP I was quite happy scorning god before I decided to become an atheist .Now I just scorn a belief in god .It makes little difference but now I have rational science on my side .We cannot prove there is no God but I still know jehovah is a liar and a bully.I tend respond badly when threatened