The Economic Crisis

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I got all of my liquid cash...

a) out of the banks
b) out of sterling

...in the first part of this year.

I pumped it all in to blue chip wine, my reasoning being that...

a) there is only a finite amount of the world's greatest wines
b) no matter how bad things get there will always be rich people
c) rich people will always want nice things.

I paid £22,000 for five cases of wine, the immediate "buy back price" from the brokers I bought from was £18,000, but in the last 8 months prices have risen steadily to the point that if I sold my wine tomorrow I would get £22,500 and it's beginning to really pick up in price now. By the end of next year I expect it to be worth £30-35k.

There is no CGT liability because the wine is seen as a depreciating asset. I remember being terrified about putting all of my eggs in one basket, but I've worked in wine long enough to know that I will be okay. If anyone needs any advice drop me a PM.

As for the overall situation, I can see things getting nightmarishly worse before they get better - the full consequences of QE in the UK have yet to be seen.

Very wise from your perspective. However, had I money to invest, I would need to find something that my butter-fingers couldn't drop and my fondness for a tipple couldn't depreciate rapidly!

[Kristie]

Bart, Black Friday is generally accepted at the start of the Great Depression, Oct., 1929.

Black Friday is the crazy busy shopping day the day after Thanksgiving in the US.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Bart, Black Friday is generally accepted at the start of the Great Depression, Oct., 1929.

Black Friday is the crazy busy shopping day the day after Thanksgiving in the US.

Wymin be shoppin'.

[devogue]

I got all of my liquid cash...

a) out of the banks
b) out of sterling

...in the first part of this year.

I pumped it all in to blue chip wine, my reasoning being that...

a) there is only a finite amount of the world's greatest wines
b) no matter how bad things get there will always be rich people
c) rich people will always want nice things.

I paid £22,000 for five cases of wine, the immediate "buy back price" from the brokers I bought from was £18,000, but in the last 8 months prices have risen steadily to the point that if I sold my wine tomorrow I would get £22,500 and it's beginning to really pick up in price now. By the end of next year I expect it to be worth £30-35k.

There is no CGT liability because the wine is seen as a depreciating asset. I remember being terrified about putting all of my eggs in one basket, but I've worked in wine long enough to know that I will be okay. If anyone needs any advice drop me a PM.

As for the overall situation, I can see things getting nightmarishly worse before they get better - the full consequences of QE in the UK have yet to be seen.

Very wise from your perspective. However, had I money to invest, I would need to find something that my butter-fingers couldn't drop and my fondness for a tipple couldn't depreciate rapidly!

Aha! But here's the clever bit...

When I bought my wine I used an extremely reputable broker (Farr Vintners). I paid a little bit more, but the service has been impeccable.

When the time comes to sell my wine the first thing any buyer will ask about is the provenance, especially if it's one of the major auction houses. There are two reasons for this:

1) There is, believe it or not, a roaring trade in fraudulent "fine wine"

2) Provenance may well dictate how well the wine has been stored - if it's been kept beside a radiator under your stairs for 20 years nobody will pay top whack for it.

Farr has kept a record of the historical movement of my wine from the cellars of the Chateau it was made at and they refuse point blank to buy or sell any wine which has been traded in the Far East (where storage is notoriously unreliable).

Once I had bought my wine, ownership was transferred to my name but the wine remains here:

http://www.octavianvaults.co.uk/?gclid= ... 4wodjhN0Kw

So it's kept well away from my greedy, pissed-up on a Saturday night hands and the conditions are perfect and recognised internationally. I pay £8 per case per year for storage and insurance.

If anyone has got a few bob to spare, for Christ's sake pump it in to the 2009 vintage of Bordeaux when the en primeur sales begin in the new year - your money will double in no time. The Bordelais are even talking it up as better than the legendary 2005. I was there a few weeks ago and they were creaming themselves about it. I have a brilliant man in Bordeaux who can take care of sales and get you the best price going. PM me if you are interested.

[Rum]

Wine? The cellar is full at Rumy Towers at the moment...er - with damp washing..

As to the economic crisis - I think it is a genuine opportunity. The fact is the debt we are currently facing paying back was accrued during a decade of totally unrealistic spending. People accumulated massive debt over the period and it was funded in part by the sub-prime and other 'highly geared' credit systems. We blame the banks (as we should) but it was mostly us that accumulated the debt.

The realisation that we can spend or produce in the same way and that those issues are linked and threaded through issues like global warming and sustainability are potential eye openers and the chance to expand the economy again in alternative ways is presenting itself.

[devogue]

Wine? The cellar is full at Rumy Towers at the moment...er - with damp washing..

As to the economic crisis - I think it is a genuine opportunity. The fact is the debt we are currently facing paying back was accrued during a decade of totally unrealistic spending. People accumulated massive debt over the period and it was funded in part by the sub-prime and other 'highly geared' credit systems. We blame the banks (as we should) but it was mostly us that accumulated the debt.

The realisation that we can spend or produce in the same way and that those issues are linked and threaded through issues like global warming and sustainability are potential eye openers and the chance to expand the economy again in alternative ways is presenting itself.

Great post Rum, especially the bit about us being to blame for accumulating the debt. As much as the banquers are wanquers there has been a serious amount of childish scapegoating going on - there was hardly a peep from most people when the banks extended them loans against the value of their houses.

The trouble is that while things are recovering the scapegoating will continue and then people and governments will pat themselves on the back once the next cycle begins. and the green agenda will fall by the wayside. Ultimately, people are selfish dicks.

Also, as far as growth being unsustainable goes, that's why we have crashes - it's a giant game of musical chairs. When the music stops there are enough people left with their dicks in their hands so the whole thing can start again.

[Feck]

And on what evidence do you think human beings are capable of learning ? .After years of studying the"south sea bubble " the greatest economic minds gave us the Dot com bubble then ran around like they didn't see what was happening ..... But it's all Ok as long as I can borrow enough money to by the new i-crap .

[JimC]

On a personal level, it only means to me that I have to teach for another 2 or 3 years more than I thought I would to be OK for retirement...

On a global level, I would't have a fucking clue...

[Rum]

On a personal level, it only means to me that I have to teach for another 2 or 3 years more than I thought I would to be OK for retirement...

On a global level, I would't have a fucking clue...

I had planned to retire next September too. Here we can do somethign called 'flexible' retirement. It means basically going part time with no detriment to your pension, which kicks in when your circumstances change. I have been thinking in terms of working 2 days a week, but we shall see what develops I guess.

[devogue]

Old codgers.

[Rum]

Old codgers.

You should be so lucky..

[JimC]

Old codgers.

You should be so lucky..

Rum and I have spent a lifetime learning to codge at near-Olympic levels!

[Rum]

Old codgers.

You should be so lucky..

Rum and I have spent a lifetime learning to codge at near-Olympic levels!

Thanks for the compliment Jim, but really - you are much better at it than me.

Thanks anyway

[JimC]

Old codgers.

You should be so lucky..

Rum and I have spent a lifetime learning to codge at near-Olympic levels!

Thanks for the compliment Jim, but really - you are much better at it than me.

Thanks anyway

(Pensioner is way better than either of us, anyway...)

[devogue]

Pensioner is just the oldest, grumpiest bastard on any forum anywhere. I can smell the piss and biscuits whenever I see his posts.