Alex's plan for Scotland : Mass immigration.

[pErvinalia]

He certainly IS talking about mass immigration.

No, he isn't.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... r.24352610

Yesterday Mr Salmond sought to play down the scale of immigration required to offset a projected fall in the working- age population over the next two decades and boost tax revenues. He said the figure of 24,000 was only 2000 higher than average annual net immigration between 2001 and 2011.

He said: "I think to increase the working-age population through net migration of 2000 additional people a year compared to experience of the past 10 years is an entirely reasonable prospective, and is very realistic to achieve."

We currently have 22,000 net immigration. The number he is talking about is 24,000.

MASS IMMIGRATION! (of an extra 2000 people)

It's an EU conspiracy!! You'll be flooded with drunk Czechs and Romanian prostitutes!!1!

[ronmcd]

He certainly IS talking about mass immigration.

No, he isn't.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... r.24352610

Yesterday Mr Salmond sought to play down the scale of immigration required to offset a projected fall in the working- age population over the next two decades and boost tax revenues. He said the figure of 24,000 was only 2000 higher than average annual net immigration between 2001 and 2011.

He said: "I think to increase the working-age population through net migration of 2000 additional people a year compared to experience of the past 10 years is an entirely reasonable prospective, and is very realistic to achieve."

We currently have 22,000 net immigration. The number he is talking about is 24,000.

MASS IMMIGRATION! (of an extra 2000 people)

It's an EU conspiracy!! You'll be flooded with drunk Czechs and Romanian prostitutes!!1!

Woohoo! Wait, I just saw "prostitutes" there.

[pErvinalia]

[Svartalf]

abuse of fiat currency devaluates it.

[pErvinalia]

But what is "abuse"? As Hermit said, if growing population was an economic drag, then all economies would have collapsed not long after they began.

[Tyrannical]

The modern reality of low skilled immigration is that they also make low wages. Low wages means low tax collections, assuming they make enough to even pay taxes. Many are likely to be on some type of official welfare or benefits. Even discounting that, the huge cost of health care and education to their often larger than natives family size. Low wage workers are a burden on the average tax payer, and importing more will only increase that burden, not lessen it.

[pErvinalia]

But if they are simply maintaining the working age population, then any low skilled workers will allow the more skilled local workers to move into the jobs that are becoming vacant with an aging population. And I'd imagine that that intake will also include many skilled immigrants too.

[klr]

Meh. It's just electioneering talk. Nothing to see here, move along ...

[mistermack]

We currently have 22,000 net immigration. The number he is talking about is 24,000.

MASS IMMIGRATION! (of an extra 2000 people)

In that case, he's lying about the extra £1000 per family that the current population will be better off from this policy. If there are a million families, that's a billion pounds more tax receipts every year.

So if over the fifteen year period, there are an extra average 15,000 immigrant taxpayers per year, they will each be paying £66,666 TAX per year. But wait a minute, that's just extra income, not profit !!
It doesn't cover how much extra the government will have to spend on them. Round it up to £100,000 why don't you? (if you're lucky)

Good luck with that, Alex. It just shows the huge scale of his lies.
I suppose it's the old story. If you're gonna tell em a lie, make it a biggie.

[ronmcd]

We currently have 22,000 net immigration. The number he is talking about is 24,000.

MASS IMMIGRATION! (of an extra 2000 people)

In that case, he's lying about the extra £1000 per family that the current population will be better off from this policy. If there are a million families, that's a billion pounds more tax receipts every year.

So if over the fifteen year period, there are an extra average 15,000 immigrant taxpayers per year, they will each be paying £66,666 TAX per year. But wait a minute, that's just extra income, not profit !!
It doesn't cover how much extra the government will have to spend on them. Round it up to £100,000 why don't you? (if you're lucky)

Good luck with that, Alex. It just shows the huge scale of his lies.
I suppose it's the old story. If you're gonna tell em a lie, make it a biggie.

My understanding is his prediction of £1000 isn't directly about immigration, it's a combination of increased immigration and other political changes to increase productivity.

Here is the BBC's take:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-27606216

On a per capita basis annual tax receipts in Scotland have averaged £10,000 over the past five years, £1,200 per person higher than the UK as a whole. This is based on the GERS economic figures, which is guaranteed by the UK Statistics Agency. This figure is often disputed because it all depends on how many years you cover, last year Scotland had a bigger deficit than the rest of the UK, but over a five year period it's slightly smaller.

They say that Scotland's economy is the 14th wealthiest country in the world. Now, that is true, but it's based on OECD figures looking at GDP per person by country. It's essentially measuring how much money is created in the Scottish economy each year, rather than how much the government takes or spends.

The Scottish government say Scotland will benefit from a share of £1.3 trillion of UK assets. There is agreement that an independent Scotland would get a chunk of all the things belonging to the UK, which is likely to be offset against Scottish debt. However, the Treasury point out that until negotiations take place, the exact figure can't be known.

Scottish ministers say they will improve productivity and grow the population. The Scottish government say if they had the full powers of an independent country then they could improve productivity and population growth. This is very much the area of future possibilities. It's certainly possible to implement policies which could encourage migration and boost production, but there's no way of guaranteeing that this would happen even if it was implemented.

So the £1000 figure is based on what a future independent Scottish government *could* do. It, like the UK govt claims about doom and gloom, are unproven and frankly unknowable.

[mistermack]

No, Salmond was clearly talking about making the Scottish economy more productive by altering the balance of working-age residents through immigration.
If he has other magic powers to improve productivity, he hasn't mentioned them, nor why they couldn't be put in place WITHOUT independence.

As has been pointed out earlier, immigrants tend to be unskilled workers. How he intends to get all that money off a few thousand unskilled immigrants is a real mystery. The current tax take per-person is averaged over the whole population, including the super-rich, and super-rich companies.
You won't be getting anything like that, from mostly struggling immigrants.

No it's not a mystery, it's a big fat lie, from a big fat liar.

[ronmcd]

No, Salmond was clearly talking about making the Scottish economy more productive by altering the balance of working-age residents through immigration.
If he has other magic powers to improve productivity, he hasn't mentioned them, nor why they couldn't be put in place WITHOUT independence.

As has been pointed out earlier, immigrants tend to be unskilled workers. How he intends to get all that money off a few thousand unskilled immigrants is a real mystery. The current tax take per-person is averaged over the whole population, including the super-rich, and super-rich companies.
You won't be getting anything like that, from mostly struggling immigrants.

No it's not a mystery, it's a big fat lie, from a big fat liar.

Except the policy to increase immigration isnt about unskilled workers, its about a points based system for particular skills. I think you are seeing what you want to see. Increased immigration is required for Scotland, in fact its an aim other parties as well as SNP have had. It's just a topical issue because of the european elections last week, and the upcoming referendum rhetoric (on both sides).

[mistermack]

Except the policy to increase immigration isnt about unskilled workers, its about a points based system for particular skills. I think you are seeing what you want to see. Increased immigration is required for Scotland, in fact its an aim other parties as well as SNP have had. It's just a topical issue because of the european elections last week, and the upcoming referendum rhetoric (on both sides).

Ha, there's a big difference between what Alex says, and what he will be able to achieve.
His figure of tax take per person includes the super rich and what the big companies pay.
Two thousand extra immigrants won't be remotely in that class. He'll be very lucky to get a quarter of the figure quoted. Most people who pay a lot of tax are older, and they are usually reluctant to migrate.
And places like Australia, who successfully operate a points-based system, have huge natural resources, which Scotland doesn't have. To get in, they need a promise of employment. Australia is forging ahead extracting natural resources. Where are all the new high paying jobs coming from in Scotland?
You can't count doctors and nurses, they are paid for directly out of taxation.

In any case, his figures don't just miss by a bit, they don't even hit the same galaxy.

I can't even call his claim a fantasy. He knows it won't happen. It's a pack of lies.
But Alex knows he can promise anything. If he gets his yes vote, he won't care, if people in ten years time point to how big his lies were.

[ronmcd]

And places like Australia, who successfully operate a points-based system, have huge natural resources, which Scotland doesn't have.

Whatever. Here's a lovely image to help you sleep tonight.

[Svartalf]

You give us an https link that can't hotlink, plus the image can't be displayed because it contains errors...