Deep Hatred of Black People in Israel

[tattuchu]

Everybody hates niggers

I used to work with this Cambodian dude. Cool guy, very funny. He took a lot of shit in this country because he was Asian, suffered a lot of abuse. Still, he was positive and optimistic. Why? "At least I'm not a nigger, "he said. "Niggers are the lowest of the low. Even in my country everyone hates niggers. I may be a gook, but it's one thing we all have in common. Everyone everywhere hates niggers. Right, Dave?"

[Blind groper]

I have a little sympathy with Gawd's view. However, you have to extend the guilt to include Britain and the USA also.

The Jewish people were evicted from their homeland in the 6th century by the Romans. There followed a 1500 year period in which an Arabic people lived there and made it their home. In the mean time, the Jews made homes for themselves in many different places. Then in World War II, Britain and the USA evicted large numbers of the Palestinians, driving them out to become refugees, and thus stealing their homeland from them, to give it back to the Jews. And it was outright and unjustifiable theft.

My view is that, after 1500 years, it was not the Jews home any more. Mind you, after another 65 years, Israel is now a Jewish country and several generations have known no other home. So we cannot ethically ask the Jews to leave either.

The ethics of the current situation are convoluted. We cannot evict the Jews. Yet we should feel enormous sympathy for the Palestinians who had their homes stolen off them due to no fault of their own. The duty to settle the mess falls on those who were guilty - the Jewish immigrants, Britain and the USA.

However, my sympathies are stronger for the Palestinians. They have been, and continue to be, abominably treated by Israel. They have, quite understandably, an organisation(s) to fight back, which others call terrorist. But for every atrocity committed against Israel, atrocities ten times as bad are committed by Israel against the Palestinians.

Bearing in mind the history, and the balance of guilt, Israel and its co-offenders should be bending over backwards to help the Palestinians. And they are not.

[Thumpalumpacus]

But for every atrocity committed against Israel, atrocities ten times as bad are committed by Israel against the Palestinians.

Well, that makes everything okay, then.

[Robert_S]

But for every atrocity committed against Israel, atrocities ten times as bad are committed by Israel against the Palestinians.

Well, that makes everything okay, then.

No. You can't really blame them for preferring to be hammers rather than nails though.

[Blind groper]

No. You can't really blame them for preferring to be hammers rather than nails though.

Self defense is one thing. Retribution ten fold is something else. The Jews were treated so horribly by the Nazis, and now a small subset of the Jews (those in authority in Israel) are trying to out-Nazi the Nazis. Not nice.

My views are not anti-semitic. I regard the Jews as not really much different to the rest of us. About 10% of the general population are total arseholes. About 10% of Jews are total arseholes. I suspect, though, that this 10% is seriously disproportionally represented in the government of Israel.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Victims of abuse aren't always the most calm, cool and collected people.

[Thumpalumpacus]

But for every atrocity committed against Israel, atrocities ten times as bad are committed by Israel against the Palestinians.

Well, that makes everything okay, then.

No. You can't really blame them for preferring to be hammers rather than nails though.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic. Israel's government has a mission -- to ensure Israel's survival. The Palestinian Authority has a mission, as well, to ensure the weal of the Palestinians. Neither side benefits from its own application of force upon the other.

Pretending one side has any moral ascendency in that shit-splat is silly. They both have killed, and will continue to kill, non-combatants, as a matter of policy.

There's more than a little PC selectivity involved in arguing that Israel is more heinous, or asserting Britain and America's "guilt" (as if collective guilt is a legitimate ethical goal). It's also interesting to note the absence of collective "guilt" assigned to the USSR, Australia, or India, although the first pushed for Israel's formation in the UN, and the latter two also provided troops in Palestine during the Second World War to ensure that an Arab uprising couldn't occur.

It's all a little selective to me, and ignores the basic fact that humans form in- and out-groups all the time and torment those with whom they don't identify.

That renders this thread essentially a stage for strutting one's biases, and nothing more ... not that that should be a surprise, considering the OP.

[Blind groper]

Thumpa

That is a very good attempt to evade duty. Actually, rather well written, even if ethically dubious.

As I said before, there is an implied ethical or moral duty by those most involved in the original crime to try to mend the problem.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Looks like our OP did a drive-by.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Looks like our OP did a drive-by.

Big surprise there.

Thumpa

That is a very good attempt to evade duty. Actually, rather well written, even if ethically dubious.

As I said before, there is an implied ethical or moral duty by those most involved in the original crime to try to mend the problem.

Reiterating a claim that hasn't been supported is shoddy argumentation.

Bring facts to the table to support your claims, because I'm not going to provide you a platform to bandy about your biases in this thread. I've made that mistake before with you, and won't repeat it.

If you simply want to reiterate what you've said already, save your keystrokes. I've read it already and disagree.

[Blind groper]

Thumpa

It is basic history.
If you are unfamiliar with the history of the founding of modern Israel, I could suggest some web sites.

[tattuchu]

Oh, I'd just like to clarify that I didn't agree with my Cambodian friend, at least in the respect that I don't hate black people. And, actually, neither did he. He was just happy that he wasn't the lowest rung on the racist ladder so he wasn't stepped on quite so much, or not as much.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Thumpa

It is basic history.
If you are unfamiliar with the history of the founding of modern Israel, I could suggest some web sites.

Groper, I know the history. If you're just going to recommend sites, perhaps you should get a job with Google.

That isn't intelligent discussion, though. If you want to say I'm wrong, merely reiterating it without explaining why is trolling, and you'll be ignored from now on, unless you bring your own thought, and your own substance to the discussion.

I must confess, I'm not holding my breath.

[Blind groper]

Thumpa

As I see it, you are asserting that, in the Israel/Palestine conflict, both sides are equally culpable.

I see that as wrong, for the simple reason that the Jewish people never had their homeland stolen from them. Also because, in the existing conflict, Israel has the power, and is inflicting far more damage and far more deaths on the Palestinians than vice versa.

Your argument is like saying that a school bully is not in the wrong because his victim had the temerity to hit back.

[Rum]

As to the history BG is right in respect of the timeline, however it is worth remembering that even as late as the 1940s the borders and identities of the nation states were not established in that neck of the woods. Indeed it was the French and the British who more or less arbitrarily drew lines on the map to define them. When the Jews sequestered the country we now call Israel it was inhabited mostly by generic Arab people, many of whom lived broadly across that part of the Middle East and many of whom were only slowly beginning to settle after generations of living a nomadic lifestyle.