Gobama! Gobama! Yes! Ease Travel Restrictions to Cuba!

[Dries van Tonder]

What possible threat can Cuba pose to the US in this day and age????????

[Dries van Tonder]

A friend just got back from a holiday in Cuba ..didn't bring me any rum or cigars ..

A friend you say

[Feck]

A friend just got back from a holiday in Cuba ..didn't bring me any rum or cigars ..

A friend you say

Yep that thought occurred to me but as an ex raging alcoholic and sufferer of Emphysema I think he is maybe forgiven ..

[Ian]

I hope obama doesn't expect any kind of praise for this. It is akin to a wife beater, who has beat his wife for 50 years, one day deciding that she's now "allowed" to choose her own socks.

That's unfair as he wasn't responsible for the last 50 years was he ?

Not personally, but the US admin is. He, personally, is responsible now in NOT lifting the sanctions.

Just WTF is the issue that the USA (OK, not all USA'ns) have with Cuba? I've met plenty of Cuban's, doctors mostly, who've been here (some for several years). I've even had a a Cuban neighbour. And they're nice people.

The issue is that the US can't stand to have a country NOT do as their told by the wanna be world police.

Of course that's all it is, sandi.

Nevermind several billion $ in US property nationalized by Cuba after Castro took power, or much more importantly the fact that there's a rather large Cuban-American community here that would go fucking ballistic if the US suddenly did a 180-degree turn on Cuba policy after fifty years!
Once the Castros are gone, things might actually get more flexible. But in the meantime, this is a decent start. I'll give Obama some praise for at least heading in the right direction. Politically, he just can't jump all the way there all at once. It's too bad, but that's the difference between idealism and realism.

Progress tends to be incremental rather than sudden. Maybe you'd only give praise for a complete 180 or a full-blown revolution here, but I'll take what I can get for now. Maybe in a year or two, we can take some more, etc. Eventually, things will get to normal.

[Robert_S]

Is it just me, or is it the case that Florida (with all those Cuban émigrés) is forever a marginal state that is helping to keep sanctions in place all this time?

I think that's pretty much it. I wish the nation would stop thinking with it's willy on this issue.

I hope obama doesn't expect any kind of praise for this. It is akin to a wife beater, who has beat his wife for 50 years, one day deciding that she's now "allowed" to choose her own socks.

That's unfair as he wasn't responsible for the last 50 years was he ?

Not personally, but the US admin is. He, personally, is responsible now in NOT lifting the sanctions.

I look at it like Obama should be praised for moving the country in a better direction, but the US government shouldn't be praised because it is not even caught up to reality yet.

[Dries van Tonder]

Nevermind several billion $ in US property nationalized by Cuba after Castro took power, or much more importantly the fact that there's a rather large Cuban-American community here that would go fucking ballistic if the US suddenly did a 180-degree turn on Cuba policy after fifty years!
Once the Castros are gone, things might actually get more flexible. But in the meantime, this is a decent start. I'll give Obama some praise for at least heading in the right direction. Politically, he just can't jump all the way there all at once. It's too bad, but that's the difference between idealism and realism.

Progress tends to be incremental rather than sudden. Maybe you'd only give praise for a complete 180 or a full-blown revolution here, but I'll take what I can get for now. Maybe in a year or two, we can take some more, etc. Eventually, things will get to normal.

We did a 180 here. Some minor ruckuss was involved. We survived. I fail to see how a 180 on Cuba would lead to total anarchy in the US; but for a major losss of support for for Obama. Which, unfortunately, is an damning indictment against the average American voter.

[sandinista]

Nevermind several billion $ in US property nationalized by Cuba after Castro took power, or much more importantly the fact that there's a rather large Cuban-American community here that would go fucking ballistic if the US suddenly did a 180-degree turn on Cuba policy after fifty years!
Once the Castros are gone, things might actually get more flexible. But in the meantime, this is a decent start. I'll give Obama some praise for at least heading in the right direction. Politically, he just can't jump all the way there all at once. It's too bad, but that's the difference between idealism and realism.

Progress tends to be incremental rather than sudden. Maybe you'd only give praise for a complete 180 or a full-blown revolution here, but I'll take what I can get for now. Maybe in a year or two, we can take some more, etc. Eventually, things will get to normal.

We did a 180 here. Some minor ruckuss was involved. We survived. I fail to see how a 180 on Cuba would lead to total anarchy in the US; but for a major losss of support for for Obama. Which, unfortunately, is an damning indictment against the average American voter.

Also, Ian, it has nothing to do with "idealism and realism", that's bullshit. The US can go 180 on a policy, and have done so in the past, fuck...they were allies with Saddam before invading and occupying Iraq...they basically created, backed, funded and armed Bin Laden and his cronies and are now at "war" with them. It's about time a 180 degree turn on Cuba happens, has nothing to do with "small steps" has everything to do with "loosing face", same as the "drug war", it could and should be stopped...period, but it's not because of US stubbornness on the issue. Both are outdated, pathetic policies that do more harm than good. Isn't it always the execue...ahhh things take time...bullshit, when the US wants to do something it is done at the drop of a dime. How long did it take them to start two wars, nothing incremental there. Lame excuse, lame policy, lame government.

[Cunt]

While it's pretty easy to disagree with sandinista and his black/white view of the world, I have a thought, as a neighbour to the USA.

If I saw a neighbour treat another neighbour, for decades, as a bitter enemy and that neighbour behaved as Cuba has, I would have no choice be more sympathetic to the one receiving all the vitriol.

The USA ought to be embarrassed by what they have done. It does, however, funnel some money up to Canada, as good Americans who wish to go to Cuba almost always have to leave from somewhere else.

[sandinista]

While it's pretty easy to disagree with sandinista and his black/white view of the world

[Robert_S]

While it's pretty easy to disagree with sandinista and his black/white view of the world

:sighsm:
It's true Sandi.

Every president is worried about all those people the Cubans sent to Florida. You want to blame someone for this, or even explain how this happened, you have to take that into account.

[sandinista]

While it's pretty easy to disagree with sandinista and his black/white view of the world

:sighsm:
It's true Sandi.

Every president is worried about all those people the Cubans sent to Florida. You want to blame someone for this, or even explain how this happened, you have to take that into account.

so, I guess its true because...you said so. OK.

[Coito ergo sum]

Lift the embargo and I'll be interested.

It's a start.

For all those who claim I never support Obama - here is another example where I do. This is a great move. The embargo didn't work. Face it and move on. The best way to break the totalitarian hold on the Cuban people is to show them freedom, capitalism and prosperity and give them a fighting chance for it.

[Coito ergo sum]

Lift the embargo and I'll be interested.

Why do you want the embargo lifted anyway? I thought you were against commerce? Lifting embargos means that the evil private enterprise folks will get to "exploit" the Cuban people...

[Coito ergo sum]

Just WTF is the issue that the USA (OK, not all USA'ns) have with Cuba? I've met plenty of Cubans, doctors mostly, who've been here (some for several years). I've even had a Cuban neighbour. And they're nice people.

EDIT: Spelling

Americans don't have any problem with Cubans, whether here or in Cuba. The embargo came about precisely because Americans opposed the totalitarian regime that brought its boot down on the neck of the Cubans and robbed the Cuban people blind. Cuba is a prison - people are not allowed to leave - that's why people had to risk their lives to escape and float on rafts 90 miles to the United States - and the United States welcomed any Cuban that could make it to our shores - Cubans had special immigration status, allowing them to stay.

The embargo, unfortunately, did not work, and does not work. At this point, the Cuban administration would likely crumble apart if the embargo was lifted and private enterprise could operate once again in Cuba.

[Coito ergo sum]

The issue is that the US can't stand to have a country NOT do as their told by the wanna be world police.

That would be a tad juvenile - US foreign policy based on "other countries doing as they're told?"

The reality is, US foreign policy, including that related to Cuba, is more complex than this kind of rhetoric. One, the embargo was imposed because Castro, a brutal dictator, took power in 1959 and shortly thereafter seized the property of American citizens and corporations without compensation. Since 1992, the policy of the US has been that the embargo would remain in place until Cuba made concrete moves toward democratization. And, a key factor here is that Cuba has not done so. Instead, we have a brutal dictator handing over the reigns of totalitarian power to his brother. Fidel gives the country to Raul.

President Clinton expanded the embargo in 2000, by prohibiting US foreign subsidiaries from doing business with Cuba.

Some say that the pro-embargo Cuban exiles are a driving force behind maintaining and strengthening the embargo. Probably so - the Cuban vote is important to taking Florida. Nobody wants to lose that vote.

The embargo is rather stupid, though, from a perspective of US policy 50 years on. The property taken half a century ago is never coming back, and most of the people who owned it are now dead, and the corporations have moved on. They're fucked. Tough luck.

An interesting fact is that despite the embargo, the United States is the fifth largest exporter to Cuba (6.6% of Cuba's imports are from the US). With Cuba right next door, the US would likely jump to number 1, if the embargo were lifted. That would be good for the US economy, and good for the Cuban people. As soon as the Cuban people en masse saw prosperity coming in from the north, they would demand to be part of it. Even a monster like Castro couldn't stop the rising tide of a populace that has lived in misery for 50 years now demanding some modicum of a decent life.