Why is there no serious opposition!?

[Trolldor]

What I've always wanted to know is whether anyone's actually looked at the statistics of the insulation-caused housefires and whether there's been a noticable increase, and how every installation could be guaranteed to have been done properly in the absence of an on-site inspector at every job.

[JimC]

It wasn't just the shoddy installation and the fires, there were people ripping of the system. Some careful planning by people with knowledge and managerial skills could have delivered a slower but much more competently done program, from reports I have read...

[Trolldor]

And if they had it would have been touted as a waste of money and time, and they still would have lost votes.

The main reason they weakend themselves in the election was a weak campaign and the axing of Rudd. I mean, for fuck's sake their opponent was led by Tony Abbott and they lost votes to him?

[Sælir]

..and yet. There is no really serious opposition to all this! Sure people complain and moan, some Unions here have demonstrated in a smallish way, much to the disgust of our 'impartial' media. If this was any time between say 1960 and 1885 the public would be in an uproar. There would be down right violent opposition (not that I am advocating that).

Are we just sheep these days, willing zombies of a Capitalist system that makes us thank it for its wonders even as it cuts off our balls?

There is serious opposition in Iceland

[hadespussercats]

I think people feel hopeless-- they have no idea what do do to take on corporate giants. Marches and the like don't seem to be that effective. And everyone is so anxious either to get a job or keep the one they have that they're leery of shaking the boat.

Do you have any ideas?

I watched a programme on TV a bit earlier tonight called 'Michael wood's Story of England'. It is actually a very interesting series about the 'micro' history of a small village in the middle of England and also what it tells us about the wider picture through the last thousand years or so.

One thing that struck me forcibly, given my comments about how us ordinary people are bailing out the banks was the relationship back in the 14th century between serfs and the local Lord and how they had to sustain and support him. Ordinary people were 'obligated' for no other reason that the local Lord 'owned' the land - stolen, inherited or otherwise at some earlier point and had to pay him simply for the basic 'right' to live a life of miserable subsistence..

Ideas? Yes, loads, including joining a union movement (which I did earlier today).

Black Flag - well we shall see...

"Must be the King."
"Why's that?"
" 'Asn't got shit all over 'im."

Serfing isn't as fun as they make it look on TV.

Congratulations on joining a union movement-- I wish you all success. And I'd love to hear some of your other ideas.

[hadespussercats]

Socialism is simply not a viable option. Never, under any circumstances, should there be a centralised power. Who would you trust to operate your country unquestioningly? That is what you ask of when you ask for Socialism.

I think people feel hopeless-- they have no idea what do do to take on corporate giants. Marches and the like don't seem to be that effective. And everyone is so anxious either to get a job or keep the one they have that they're leery of shaking the boat.

Do you have any ideas?

Yes. What does a corporation rely upon? Consumers.
When the public wakes up and performs a concerted effort they can really change things.
Boycott a product, watch how quickly the company changes.
A company's first priority is to make money, and it will do what it needs to in order to achieve that goal.

How do you boycott a bank? Or a financial corporation with its fingers in so many pies, either overtly or covertly, that it's impossible to count them all?

[Trolldor]

It's easy to boycott a bank. Go to a different one, there are plenty of smaller independant banks that would be happy to take our account.
Petition your Government for regulation, protest if need be. Cause disruption to services and force them to lose money. Make it more expensive for them to ignore your commands than it is to accede to them.

[hadespussercats]

My understanding is that most banks are inter-connected through internal lending and investments. To get outside of that system, I'd have to join something like a small-town credit union-- which is difficult to find where I live. Maybe not impossible-- and that might be worth looking into.

Then there are the loans my husband and I have from school-- up to our asses. I'm not sure how to go about moving those, beyond paying them off (which is impossible at the moment) or going to some sort of loan shark to shift the debt-- which I think you'll agree is a bad idea. Thank goodness I don't have a mortgage, or the situation would be even more complicated, and difficult/impossible to extricate myself from.

I used to be a big believer in petitions and protests, but I've grown cynical about their effectiveness.

As for causing disruption to services, well, these companies operate in places that I don't know about, have never seen, and couldn't get into if I wanted, and the amount of money they would have to lose before they even felt the pinch, well, it's staggering.

I don't want to be cynical. I am angry, and I want social change. I just wish I knew ways to go about it that I actually believed would work.

[Trolldor]

If the banks won't self-regulate, force them to.
The Government won't regulate, then you make the Government pay for it.

People are complacent. Look at the recent Nobel Prize Winner, the Chinese Dissident. He risked everything just by speaking out, how much are you willing to risk to get the changes you want?
How much disruption are you willing to cause? How much dissatisfaction are you willing to show?

If there is something you want to change badly enough, then show them that exahausting all your legal means of redress won't stop you from fighting.
Most people give up. They may turn out in their hundreds of thousands... but if nobody listens, they just pack up and go home.

[hadespussercats]

You're inspiring, MH. I'm still not sure exactly what to do, but you've got me thinking.

[Santa_Claus]

The govt is not making any cuts.

they are just going to be (note future tense - you ain't seen nuthin yet!) spending less of the money that they (aka us / you / me) don't have. Tories will of course use as an opportunity to stop spending in areas for ideological reasons - but that only scratching the surface...........govt simply has no choice but to stop doing a lot of "nice to haves".

Main problem is that the Anglo Saxon economies seperated money from wealth on an industrial scale - you can print the former (and the banks defacto did that for 20 years) but not the latter. Scarey thing is that everyone silent on how UK plc is going to earn the wealth to both pay the debt down and replace the banking (excesses) - that's a lot of haircuts we are going to have to give to each other. or exports of ????

In many respects the UK economy is a giant Ponzi scheme based around land prices - just like Bernie Madoffs business all goes well until someone notices their is nothing behind it all. and even those within the fraud don't all know it is based on nonsense.

[RuleBritannia]

The fact of the matter is that most people in Britain (and other Western nations) live pretty comfortable, peaceful lives. They have too much to lose and not enough to win to see any useful civil disobedience as worth the risk.

[Pappa]

The fact of the matter is that most people in Britain (and other Western nations) live pretty comfortable, peaceful lives. They have too much to lose and not enough to win to see any useful civil disobedience as worth the risk.

Which is a real shame because civil disobedience is fun.

[statichaos]

The fact is that most people are kind of dumb, and more so when they're panicky. Get an audience of dumb, panicked people together, tell them that they're about to lose what little they have, then inform them that if they just give up their first-born daughters to be violated by you, then everything will be all right. Know what? You'll have a line of women around the block.

[RuleBritannia]

The fact is that most people are kind of dumb, and more so when they're panicky. Get an audience of dumb, panicked people together, tell them that they're about to lose what little they have, then inform them that if they just give up their first-born daughters to be violated by you, then everything will be all right. Know what? You'll have a line of women around the block.

What a pile of bullshit, get off your high horse twat.