Blair donates to Royal British Legion

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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by Trolldor » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:34 pm

Pensioner wrote:
mistermack wrote:
Pensioner wrote: Fuck off you silly cunt what do you know.
Just that a soldier is someone prepared to kill to order.
I've got no problem with that. But they are much more than poor lads.
.
Well in all my years in the army I have never known any of my mates who would kill to order, and you say you have no problem with it. We did.
This conversation reminds me of one I had a long time ago.
A girl trying to convince us that soldiers wanted to fight based on the words of her uncle who had never seen combat.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by mistermack » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:42 pm

Pensioner wrote: Well in all my years in the army I have never known any of my mates who would kill to order, and you say you have no problem with it. We did.
You're there to follow orders. An officer shouts fire, you fire.
And no problem means of course I accept it's necessary to have armed forces.
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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by Deep Sea Isopod » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:26 pm

mistermack wrote:
Pensioner wrote: Well in all my years in the army I have never known any of my mates who would kill to order, and you say you have no problem with it. We did.
You're there to follow orders. An officer shouts fire, you fire.
And no problem means of course I accept it's necessary to have armed forces.
.
The thing is, the officer must have a very good reason to shout fire. They are allowed to disobey illegal orders.


And what about the guys who stay behind, servicing the vehicles/aircraft or cooking the meals? You know, the ones who get mortared while not even holding a gun!
I hope you don't think every man and woman in the forces are just mindless killers.
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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by Pensioner » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:45 pm

Deep Sea Isopod wrote:
mistermack wrote:
Pensioner wrote: Well in all my years in the army I have never known any of my mates who would kill to order, and you say you have no problem with it. We did.
You're there to follow orders. An officer shouts fire, you fire.
And no problem means of course I accept it's necessary to have armed forces.
.
The thing is, the officer must have a very good reason to shout fire. They are allowed to disobey illegal orders.


And what about the guys who stay behind, servicing the vehicles/aircraft or cooking the meals? You know, the ones who get mortared while not even holding a gun!
I hope you don't think every man and woman in the forces are just mindless killers.
When I was in my 20s in the army I was up for it,proud and patriotic to the 9th degree. Now in my 70s I think I was a fucking idiot be leaving all that shit.
“I wish no harm to any human being, but I, as one man, am going to exercise my freedom of speech. No human being on the face of the earth, no government is going to take from me my right to speak, my right to protest against wrong, my right to do everything that is for the benefit of mankind. I am not here, then, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot.”

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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by Posse Comitatus » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:24 am

I love Blair and I love Mandelson and I love the whole New Labour thing generally.

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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by mistermack » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:19 am

Deep Sea Isopod wrote: The thing is, the officer must have a very good reason to shout fire. They are allowed to disobey illegal orders.

And what about the guys who stay behind, servicing the vehicles/aircraft or cooking the meals? You know, the ones who get mortared while not even holding a gun!
I hope you don't think every man and woman in the forces are just mindless killers.
Well, the officers have their own orders to follow. And all the other trades are part of the war machine.
No, of course they aren't mindless killers, they are highly trained killers. Obviously war is a last resort for everyone, I'm not saying soldiers are bloodthirsty.
Having said that, all the training is aimed at unquestioning following of orders, but that can only go so far.

I'm just saying that soldiers, when they join, know that they might have to kill and be killed. It's a chance they are prepared to take with their own lives, and with those of others.
You do get families moaning about Blair going to war, and their sons getting killed and injured. But you don't hear much of it from the soldiers, because they live with the knowledge that it was always their choice, and that they would have no say in who or why they would be fighting.

Ours not to reason why, ours just to do and die!!
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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by The Dawktor » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:30 am

I remain amazed at how few of them are coming home in body bags (obviously the injured are the ones we don't hear about)- I'm certainly not saying that any losses are acceptable- I'm just surprised at the low death rate (SO FAR)- in a proper war- there'd be hundreds a week and not 1-3/week.
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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by JimC » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:36 am

TOMMY
by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)



I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by mistermack » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:10 am

"Tommy" by Berni Innes :

Trouble is, you let them in, and they wreck the place.
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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:01 pm

Gertie wrote:He's donating about £5 million in total.

Fair play.
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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by AnInconvenientScotsman » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:10 pm

Who gives a shit where the money comes from? Sure, he's a dickhead (I refuse to say war criminal) but it's £5m to a good cause.
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Re: Blair donates to Royal British Legion

Post by mistermack » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:53 pm

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Gertie wrote:He's donating about £5 million in total.

Fair play.
Peanuts.
Peanuts at Tescos are 38p a bag. That's an awful lot of peanuts.
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