Oklahoma, what have you done?!

[owtth]

I'm wondering if an abnormality can lead to the death of a mother who may have had the opportunity to save her own life if she had had the information denied her by this legislation.

[JimC]

It would be interesting to know how many doctors support this idea. If only a minority do, then the medical association of Oklahoma (if there is such a body) could get the majority of doctors to sign up to a "Truth in Medicine" pledge, and have little, official plaques on their desks stating this... A pregnant woman would then know which doctor to choose...

Remember, this evil legislation cannot compel doctors to lie...

[Mysturji]

Doesn't this also go against the Hippocratic oath?

I'm sure there's something in there about "reduce suffering", so yes, I think so.
This is madness.

[Ian]

This is a doomed law - it would never hold up in a major lawsuit. I'm picturing American Medical Association v. Oklahoma becoming a future legal decision.

[amused]

Really despicable. I'm from Texas and I didn't think the stupid in the government could get worse, but it did. Some of these laws get into the system in an effort to force the more liberal representatives to dare vote against them, so they will be vulnerable in the next election cycle. These laws are also good distractions from dealing with the real problems people face.

[Godless Libertarian]

I support it.

Not forcing people to do something = freedom.

Let women choose honest doctors and put the liars and secret-keepers out of business.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Gotta love xtian logic: Thou canst break the 9th commandment in order to prevent another from breaking the 6th. These people are just scared because most of them should have been aborted and they fucking know it! Cunts!

[RuleBritannia]

I support it.

Not forcing people to do something = freedom.

Let women choose honest doctors and put the liars and secret-keepers out of business.

What about the mothers? Their freedom to choose is inhibited without all the information.

[maiforpeace]

90% of people who discover their unborn child has Down's syndrome choose to abort.

I am, as always boggled by the sheer hypocrisy of religious people. Their control issues are off the charts. Thou shalt not lie, except...

[Feck]

I support it.

Not forcing people to do something = freedom.

Let women choose honest doctors and put the liars and secret-keepers out of business.

MMM There is no real way that is going to work though is there? Pro life doctors are not going to advertise that they will lie ! and social pressures on young couples to go and see a "Christian" doctor will still be there .

[Godless Libertarian]

What about the mothers? Their freedom to choose is inhibited without all the information.

The freedom to choose does not equate to making a well-informed decision. For instance, if I had a wife, I may choose daily to remain married to her, but I would be making that decision with the assumption that she is being faithful to me. However, if it turned out that she were lying to me, and she was actually being unfaithful, although a huge breach of trust has been committed, there is no cause for me to seek forceful retribution upon her, because it was her decision to lie, her right to lie, in fact, as a fundamental derivative of the right to free speech.

MMM There is no real way that is going to work though is there? Pro life doctors are not going to advertise that they will lie ! and social pressures on young couples to go and see a "Christian" doctor will still be there .

I guess it depends on what you mean by "work". To me, a society only works if it is based on the ideal of freedom: that people are free to act in the manner they see fit including certain objectionable actions such as being dishonest about serious matters. I would not force anyone to tell me the truth about anything. I respect the right, for instance, of Christians to knowingly spread blatant lies though their children may grow up fearing hell and damnation. Again, a fundamental aspect of free speech.



To be clear, I am pro-choice. I would willingly criticize if not ridicule, even organize a boycott of, any doctor who did not share dire medical information with his/her patients. I am simply not willing to force truth out of anyone. It sincerely worries me that so many people here are.

[RuleBritannia]

What about the mothers? Their freedom to choose is inhibited without all the information.

The freedom to choose does not equate to making a well-informed decision. For instance, if I had a wife, I may choose daily to remain married to her, but I would be making that decision with the assumption that she is being faithful to me. However, if it turned out that she were lying to me, and she was actually being unfaithful, although a huge breech of trust has been committed, there is no cause for me to seek forceful retribution upon her, because it was her decision to lie, her right to lie, in fact, as a fundamental derivative of the right to free speech.

MMM There is no real way that is going to work though is there? Pro life doctors are not going to advertise that they will lie ! and social pressures on young couples to go and see a "Christian" doctor will still be there .

I guess it depends on what you mean by "work". To me, a society only works if it is based on the ideal of freedom: that people are free to act in the manner they see fit including certain objectionable actions such as being dishonest about serious matters. I would not force anyone to tell me the truth about anything. I respect the right, for instance, of Christians to knowingly spread blatant lies though their children may grow up fearing hell and damnation. Again, a fundamental aspect of free speech.



To be clear, I am pro-choice. I would willingly criticize if not ridicule any doctor who did not share dire medical information with his/her patients. I am simply not willing to force truth out of anyone. It sincerely worries me that so many people here are.

Thanks for that bullshit.

[Godless Libertarian]

Note to anyone else who might disagree with my position:

I'm willing to discuss this issue in a mature fashion. But if you just feel like acting immaturely (see above post) that's fine, but I'd appreciate knowing in advance so I don't waste my time typing thorough responses.

[Trolldor]

I support it.

Not forcing people to do something = freedom.

Let women choose honest doctors and put the liars and secret-keepers out of business.

What a fucking idiotic attitude to have. You do realise that what you're advocating impinges on a woman's freedom to have full and correct information about the child they're carrying? And the importance of having readily available doctors? I take it you're not exactly involved in the medical profession, even as a patient, because if you were you'd understand how important it is to be able to have a local doctor you can trust. It's more than just getting medical advice, as a doctor is a font of connections for network groups and associations and specialists - for example support groups that would help women who do choose to keep a child born with a mild or serious disability. You also fail to take in to account how many women will suffer as a result, how many women will have not taken preparations for a child with special disabilities, how many women may actually die because the doctor lied about a life-threatening deformity. Yeah, go freedom!
How many women will not be able to afford to travel interstate? Or get a second opinion? How families will have to suffer before "liars" are exposed? Freedom my ass. Your freedom does not extend to impinging on the freedom of others. A doctor gains no freedom by being able to lie to a patient, a patient stands to lose everything.

Libertarian - just another bullshit political philosophy disguised as something clever.

[JimC]

I support it.

Not forcing people to do something = freedom.

Let women choose honest doctors and put the liars and secret-keepers out of business.

What a fucking idiotic attitude to have. You do realise that what you're advocating impinges on a woman's freedom to have full and correct information about the child they're carrying? And the importance of having readily available doctors? I take it you're not exactly involved in the medical profession, even as a patient, because if you were you'd understand how important it is to be able to have a local doctor you can trust. It's more than just getting medical advice, as a doctor is a font of connections for network groups and associations and specialists - for example support groups that would help women who do choose to keep a child born with a mild or serious disability. You also fail to take in to account how many women will suffer as a result, how many women will have not taken preparations for a child with special disabilities, how many women may actually die because the doctor lied about a life-threatening deformity. Yeah, go freedom!
How many women will not be able to afford to travel interstate? Or get a second opinion? How families will have to suffer before "liars" are exposed? Freedom my ass. Your freedom does not extend to impinging on the freedom of others. A doctor gains no freedom by being able to lie to a patient, a patient stands to lose everything.

Libertarian - just another bullshit political philosophy disguised as something clever.

I agree 100%!

(and BAA, as a mod, I appreciate that you were attacking the attitude, and not the poster...)