Barack Obama wins the Nobel Peace prize

[FBM]

A few centuries of slavery and oppression overcome in a few decades of civil rights movements. Nothing noteworthy in that, is there? You appear to be too young to have experienced real racism, complete with hangings, segregation and the like, and maybe it didn't even happen in your (Northern?) hometown, so it doesn't surprise me that the magnitude of this accomplishment doesn't have the same impact on you as it does on those of us over 40. Please don't let the fact that you've been insulated from history prevent you from appreciating it.

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[Drewish]

I've lived all up and down the east coast. Even so, maybe you're right. Maybe because race hasn't been that big an issue with me, I don't see supporting Obama because of his race as a call to end racism, but as racism itself. But you should be happy then, because this next generation really won't care about race, and won't be able to relate to the race struggles of your youth. And like the feminists who now see themselves sidelined by mainstream society, it's not because their cause was not noble, it's because they've already won and the equality they demanded is now just an assumption. And like the white racism in the Republican party is now, the world view of black victimization in the Democratic party will one day seem horribly outdated and fade away with the passing of its followers.

[FBM]

I've lived all up and down the east coast. Even so, maybe you're right. Maybe because race hasn't been that big an issue with me, I don't see supporting Obama because of his race as a call to end racism, but as racism itself. But you should be happy then, because this next generation really won't care about race, and won't be able to relate to the race struggles of your youth. And like the feminists who now see themselves sidelined by mainstream society, it's not because their cause was not noble, it's because they've already won and the equality they demanded is now just an assumption. And like the white racism in the Republican party is now, the world view of black victimization in the Democratic party will one day seem horribly outdated and fade away with the passing of its followers.

And that passing should be swept quietly under the rug? If so, how will future generations learn from it? If we don't sing it loud and clear, history will be doomed to repeat itself.

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We need to shout out that it doesn't matter if you're black, white. Latino, Asian or whatever else, if you have the qualifications, if you have good ideas, and if you can lead, you get the job. This is exaclty what Obama's presidency signals. The end to racism. That should be shouted from the rooftops. NO MORE RACISM!! I believe that this is the hidden message of the Nobel award: Stop thinking about skin color and start considering what the person stands for and what s/he does! Obama has already made it clear that his goal is to reduce conflict and warfare rather than promote it, as did his predecessor. He's made it clear that America should play a leading role in advancing the quality of life (education and health care) for everyone, not just the ecomomic elite. What has he actually accomplished so far? Well, how is he going to accomplish much when he is opposed by so many powerful Republicans whose agenda is to promote social Darwinism, which is nothing more than a re-hashing of Lutheran idealism (the rich are rich because they are blessed by Gwod) and Manifest Destiny (bullshit ideas), both of which are covers for their real motivation: greed. Greed, big business, the industrial war machine, all of which stand to lose out if rationality and common sense were to rule the day.

[leo-rcc]

People need to get a grip. http://gothamist.com/2009/10/13/childre ... rotest.php

Good for the protesters!

I agree. I am not even a citizen of the US and I would find this song objectionable to say the least if I were.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

People need to get a grip. http://gothamist.com/2009/10/13/childre ... rotest.php

Good for the protesters!

I agree. I am not even a citizen of the US and I would find this song objectionable to say the least if I were.

[Drewish]

Wait what? I'm confused. You seem to be about facing on why Obama should have gotten this awawrd, saying that it's not about race, but instead about what he says in his speeches, and then seem to indicate that Obama should win because he's so liberal. Maybe, I'm misreading or something; would you mind clarriying?

And to be fair, I'm all for social Darwinism, so I think your characterization of the Right is spot on for that point. That's exactly what we want.

[Chinaski]

Andrew, Obama doesn't deserve the prize "because he's black". He deserves it "because he managed to do what he's done DESPITE being black, which is still a large handicap".

[FBM]

Wait what? I'm confused. You seem to be about facing on why Obama should have gotten this awawrd, saying that it's not about race, but instead about what he says in his speeches, and then seem to indicate that Obama should win because he's so liberal. Maybe, I'm misreading or something; would you mind clarriying?

"...saying that it's not about race..." WTF? Did you even read what I just wrote? I said, it's about signaling the END OF RACISM! Is that such a difficult concept? No doubt priveleged whites (distanced in time and space from the hangings, beatings, rapes and segreation) would dearly love to see the whole slavery/hangings/segregation thing swept under the rug, but there is, after all, the REST OF THE WORLD to consider. Is it so wrong to use the Nobel venue as a signal to the world's governments and peoples to end racism? I mean, what the fuck is wrong with that? Obama is just a pawn in this game. Whoever the first black US President happened to be would carry the same ideological significance. I'd be willing to bet that the first female president/head of state of the world's superpower would also receive a Nobel just for her gender and its symbolic import.

And to be fair, I'm all for social Darwinism, so I think your characterization of the Right is spot on for that point. That's exactly what we want.

Good luck with social Darwinism. That's already dead in the water. I politely suggest that you put science ahead of politics, not the other way 'round.
Politics ahead of science is what led to eugenics and Nazism. Not sayin'...just sayin'....

[charlou]

This is ideological indoctrination, Gawd, ie teaching children what to think, not how to think. Reading those lyrics has literally turned my stomach.

It's not unlike what is and has been seen in other countries where leader worship leaves people vulnerable to manipulation and exploitation.

I agree with Andrew here, it's just fucking unethical.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This is ideological indoctrination, Gawd, ie teaching children what to think, not how to think. Reading those lyrics has literally turned my stomach.

It's not unlike what is and has been seen in other countries where leader worship leaves people vulnerable to manipulation and exploitation.

I agree with Andrew here, it's just fucking unethical.

You should look at the song books in US schools. This stuff is milk toast. A tempest in a teacup.

[leo-rcc]

This is ideological indoctrination, Gawd, ie teaching children what to think, not how to think. Reading those lyrics has literally turned my stomach.

It's not unlike what is and has been seen in other countries where leader worship leaves people vulnerable to manipulation and exploitation.

I agree with Andrew here, it's just fucking unethical.

You should look at the song books in US schools. This stuff is milk toast. A tempest in a teacup.

That doesn't make this song any less objectionable.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That doesn't make this song any less objectionable.

That's very PC of you.

[charlou]

That doesn't make this song any less objectionable.

That's very PC of you.

That doesn't make this song any less objectionable, either.

And I disagree that it's a tempest in a teacup. I'm surprised at this attitude from someone who would argue against religious indoctrination of children. This is fundamentally no different.

BTW, this kind of indoctrination of dogma is being discussed in floppit's thread, here.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That doesn't make this song any less objectionable.

That's very PC of you.

That doesn't make this song any less objectionable, either.

There's nothing objectionable about saying somebody is doing a great job. I'm a student of history and compared to the jingoism of the Spanish-American War this little ditty is simply not worth considering seriously.

[charlou]

You may have missed my edit, Gawd.

That doesn't make this song any less objectionable.

That's very PC of you.

That doesn't make this song any less objectionable, either.

There's nothing objectionable about saying somebody is doing a great job. I'm a student of history and compared to the jingoism of the Spanish-American War this little ditty is simply not worth considering seriously.

The children aren't deciding for themselves whether they think this president is doing a great job, they're being told he is, and this message, along with the more general nationalist pride message, is being reinforced with the cunning use of music, a very useful indoctrination tool.