Hurricane Irma

[Forty Two]

Merka is one place I certainly wouldn't want to go through a natural disaster. The shit I'm reading out of there (and the sort of stuff that happened in Katrina) just wouldn't happen here in the civilised world.

It could happen in Tasmania...

Once again, what you see reported on the news are aberrations, not the norm. The norm is the neighborhood pitching in together to help each other. I went to the neighbor who didn't know how to use a circular saw and measured and cut their plywood to cover their windows. I gave another neighbor milk and some spare items. Neighbors looked out for each other's homes. Strangers stopped to help stranded motorists. Strangers helped folks in flooded homes and gave aid and comfort to elderly and infirm. Such actions far outstripped, by orders of magnitude, the number of bad acts occurring.

There are the occasional fraudsters, price-gougers, looters and criminals. But, in the vast majority of towns, people pulled together and helped each other. They didn't fight over building materials at the Home Depot, they helped each other load their vehicles. They wished each other well.

For every supermarket looted there were 1000s that were not. For every price-gouger, there were 1000 people who lowered prices and even gave away necessities to help those in need.

And, yes, it would happen in the "civilized" world. This hurricane hit a region with over 25 million people - that's almost the entire population of Australia or Canada. Florida managed to undertake the largest movement of people in the history of the country, moving between 5 and 10 million people. It went well, with vanishingly small numbers of criminal acts involved.

Yes, there were a few looters here, and a few fraudsters there. But that would occur in the civilized world too.

[Brian Peacock]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-35203978

The police said that looting was 'morally irresponsible'. Glad we got that cleared up.

[Animavore]

Not sure if England counts as a civilised country. It's the only place I've been where cops in riot gear stand at each end of the main street in anticipation of trouble from people coming out of the nightclubs on Saturday night.

[pErvinalia]

[Brian Peacock]

We only have 26 police officers in Gloucestershire. We know them all by name.

[Animavore]

Ok. In fairness; that was Liverpool. Lol.

[L'Emmerdeur]

Did the local authorities refuse to allow entry to shelters to people who had outstanding parking tickets (not to mention worse "crimes")?

The zealous lawman didn't so much refuse to allow entry as offer 'alternative' accommodation.

'Florida sheriff offers suspects shelter from Irma ... in jail'

As authorities in Florida warn many of those in the potential path of Hurricane Irma to leave their homes, a county sheriff is offering a warm bed to anyone wanted by law enforcement: in the county jail.

“If you go to a shelter for #Irma and you have a warrant, we’ll gladly escort you to the safe and secure shelter called the Polk County Jail,” the Polk County Sheriff’s Office wrote on Twitter on Wednesday.

Florida Governor Rick Scott has warned that Irma could be more devastating than Hurricane Andrew, which hit the state in 1992. Thousands of National Guard troops will be deployed ahead of Irma’s expected arrival at the weekend.

In a series of tweets, the Polk County Sheriff’s Office urged people to prepare for the storm, and said that if they did go to a shelter they would find deputies there checking IDs.

“Sex offenders/predators will not be allowed,” the office tweeted. “We cannot and we will not have innocent children in a shelter with sexual offenders & predators. Period.”

He's being sued, but it wouldn't surprise me if the suit gets tossed out. Law'norder is a priority, you know.

'Hurricane Irma: Florida sheriff who threatened arrests at shelters is sued'

The suit, which attorney Cynthia Conlin said was electronically filed Sunday but hadn’t yet been processed by the 10th Judicial Circuit Court, claims Andres Borreno of Virginia was told by Polk County deputies he would have to submit to a criminal background check before he was able to enter a shelter Saturday. The suit doesn’t say if Borreno had an outstanding warrant.

“The officer … also never told Borreno that he was suspected of any crime or illegal act at that time,” the suit states. “Criminal suspicion is not raised by trying to enter an emergency shelter to save one’s life and the life of family members.”

Judd said Sunday “They filed that lawsuit for free press and it's obviously frivolous. I have a nationwide profile and they see it as an opportunity for nationwide press.”

Judd said Borreno wasn't treated differently than others seeking shelter. He was offered shelter at the jail and was offered a ride. Judd said he didn't know if Borreno went to the shelter.

“We check everyone who comes to a shelter to ensure they aren't a sexual predator or a child sexual offender,” he said. “We are absolutely not going to let a sexual predator or a child sexual offender sleep next to a child in a storm shelter.”

Judd said Sunday 43 sex offenders in Polk County were being sheltered in an area of the jail that is not behind bars, and they are not in custody.

[Forty Two]

In my county they had an announcement that they would still shelter those folks on sex offender lists and such, but that they would be taken away from where families were located. I guess I don't see much of a problem with that. I think there would be some liability issues if the sheltering authorities took no precautions to prevent sex offenders from hanging about small children, and then someone gets molested. Questions would certainly be asked about why nothing was done.

And, the Polk County Jail is very safe. Not sure why someone with a warrant out for their arrest would be surprised about going there if they encounter a police officer. It's not like the "civilized" world requires probable cause to run someone's identity. Most of the western European countries allow their police to stop and ask for ID such at any time. It's pretty much only the common law countries that tend try to respect the notions of "rights" and limit the power of police to check your papers.

Usually, in the US, a cop has no right to ask for your ID just because. He has to have some sort of reasonable suspicion that you're up to something. However, there would be some reason to check everyone's ID's who are entering a shelter, much the same as there is reason to check everyone's ID who is boarding a plane or a train, or who is entering a primary school, etc.

[pErvinalia]

However, there would be some reason to check everyone's ID's who are entering a shelter

Merka. Show your ID or die in the storm.

[Forty Two]

That isn't at all what happened, or what Sheriff Judd was accused of doing.

What's the way in Oz? If there is a hurricane, just house sex offenders and felons with warrants out for their arrest in the same room as everyone else, no questions asked? What would the Ozzies do differently?

Here's a sampling of how a civilized country does hurricane shelters... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ebbie.html

As you can see, that's how it should be done. Set up shelters in bare rooms with little to no items to help the people staying there and tell them you don't have room for mattresses, pillows and blankets. But they can rest assured that no action will be taken to make sure that sex offenders and violent felons are housed in a different area. That's how it's done in the civilized world, I suppose....

[pErvinalia]

That isn't at all what happened, or what Sheriff Judd was accused of doing.

What's the way in Oz? If there is a hurricane, just house sex offenders and felons with warrants out for their arrest in the same room as everyone else, no questions asked? What would the Ozzies do differently?

They absolutely wouldn't check ID. The very thought of doing that would be abhorent to most of us. If someone is in potentially mortal danger, then they get access to a public shelter (if one is available).

As you can see, that's how it should be done. Set up shelters in bare rooms with little to no items to help the people staying there and tell them you don't have room for mattresses, pillows and blankets. But they can rest assured that no action will be taken to make sure that sex offenders and violent felons are housed in a different area. That's how it's done in the civilized world, I suppose....

How many fucking sex offenders and violent felons do you have over there?? The chances of a sex offender or a violent felon being in a shelter from a random selection of the population here would be very minimal. And while I understand the restrictions on sex offenders after they have served or paid their dues, I don't think there are any such restrictions on other felons, and nor should there be. If you serve your time, you should be treated just like any other citizen. Particularly when it comes to life and death matters.

[Forty Two]

It's going to be a lot more than in the same general area hit by hurricane Debbie, since there is a massive difference in population. You Ozzies have like 25 million people in a country the size of the continental United States. We have that many in Florida alone.

Also, the restriction wasn't on any felon. It was just that if you had a warrant out for your arrest, you'd get shelter in the jail, which is where you'd be if they found you any other day.

Moreover, Grady Judd is sort of a one-of-a-kind Sheriff. He makes high-profile statements and such, and is a very hard-nosed fellow.

Nevertheless, if in Oz they would take no steps whatsoever to ensure that registered sex offenders are kept away from children in shelters, then so be it. That must be how they do it there, if you say so.

[Sean Hayden]

You guys were checking for warrants at shelters?

[pErvinalia]

Ridiculous, hey?

[Forty Two]

You guys were checking for warrants at shelters?

I guess in some shelters in Polk County. Not generally. They're looking for dangerous people.

In my county, they were checking to see if one was on the sex offender list. Such a person would be obligated by law to disclose that information anyway. And, in a cramped shelter with a bunch of kids around, it doesn't sound like that much of a bad idea.