Leftist Riot Du Jour - UC Berkeley

[Forty Two]

Some familiar rhetoric in this story:

In March 2013, Heimbach crashed a Conservative Political Action Committee (CPAC) event on racial tolerance where he arrived, wearing a Confederate flag, representing all the “disenfranchised” white citizens. Earlier this year, he again went viral for getting caught on video shoving a Black Lives Matter protester at a Trump rally, and yelling at her for being “leftist scum.”

Wither or not the BLM proterster was leftist scum, she did not deserve to be pushed, no matter how vile and insulting to human dignity her viewpoints might be. That's the difference, isn't it? We can all agree that Heimbach did wrong and should be prosecuted, right, even if he truly believed he was on the side of right and the BLM protester was a danger to society and our culture and even other individuals, right?

On Sunday, his group, in conjunction with the Golden State Skinheads, held a pro-white/pro-Trump rally in Sacramento where at least five people were stabbed and several others wounded. Heimbach himself was not at the chaotic, violent event; he and his followers blamed the “anti-fascist” counter-protesters for the mayhem. The stabbing victims were on both sides of the fight, police told reporters.

“They attacked each other without hesitation,” 50-year-old counter-protester Chandra Zafra told the Los Angeles Times. “It was a war zone.”

Sounds terrible. The violence is wrong. Whoever started it was definitely in the wrong. They should be prosecuted. If the Heimbach group started it, then the people attacked had every right to defend themselves, didn't they?

And the “Traditionalists” declared their victory.

“We will not be intimidated,” Parrott wrote online in a fundraising pitch, following the incident. “We will not stand down. Our event was a victory by all metrics. We won the physical fight. We provoked the leftists into showing their true colors.”

The true colors of a lot of leftists is hate and violence.

That does not in any way suggest that this "Heimbach" and his group are also not hateful and violent.

I'm not defending Heimbach or anyone else. I'm on the side of free speech and against assault and battery.

You keep trying to suggest that I am somehow on the side of racists and white nationalists. I'm not. I'm just against scumbags to initiate violence. The issue with the leftists these days is that they actually go around trying to argue that it's RIGHT that they engage in violence to shut the bad guys up.

[Tero]

Good thing us liberals will win eventually. 2-6 years. Then we just tax the Trumpists and give it to ourselves as benefits. Gets tedious to have to pepper spray all the people dumb enough to wear racist Trump's hat after the election.

[Forty Two]

Good thing us liberals will win eventually. 2-6 years. Then we just tax the Trumpists and give it to ourselves as benefits. Gets tedious to have to pepper spray all the people dumb enough to wear racist Trump's hat after the election.

lefitsts and liberals are different ideologies. Left is not liberal anymore.

[Tero]

Whatever. Off to the gun shop now for a dozen pepper sprays.

[Forty Two]

Just make sure you spray the people with the evil opinions.

[Brian Peacock]

Some familiar rhetoric in this story:

In March 2013, Heimbach crashed a Conservative Political Action Committee (CPAC) event on racial tolerance where he arrived, wearing a Confederate flag, representing all the “disenfranchised” white citizens. Earlier this year, he again went viral for getting caught on video shoving a Black Lives Matter protester at a Trump rally, and yelling at her for being “leftist scum.”

Wither or not the BLM proterster was leftist scum, she did not deserve to be pushed, no matter how vile and insulting to human dignity her viewpoints might be. That's the difference, isn't it? We can all agree that Heimbach did wrong and should be prosecuted, right, even if he truly believed he was on the side of right and the BLM protester was a danger to society and our culture and even other individuals, right?

On Sunday, his group, in conjunction with the Golden State Skinheads, held a pro-white/pro-Trump rally in Sacramento where at least five people were stabbed and several others wounded. Heimbach himself was not at the chaotic, violent event; he and his followers blamed the “anti-fascist” counter-protesters for the mayhem. The stabbing victims were on both sides of the fight, police told reporters.

“They attacked each other without hesitation,” 50-year-old counter-protester Chandra Zafra told the Los Angeles Times. “It was a war zone.”

Sounds terrible. The violence is wrong. Whoever started it was definitely in the wrong. They should be prosecuted. If the Heimbach group started it, then the people attacked had every right to defend themselves, didn't they?

And the “Traditionalists” declared their victory.

“We will not be intimidated,” Parrott wrote online in a fundraising pitch, following the incident. “We will not stand down. Our event was a victory by all metrics. We won the physical fight. We provoked the leftists into showing their true colors.”

The true colors of a lot of leftists is hate and violence.

The true colours of white supremacists, apart from White of course, is hate and violence, oppression, and a disregard for the rights and freedoms of those whom they set themselves against.

That does not in any way suggest that this "Heimbach" and his group are also not hateful and violent.

They are self-declared white supremacists: by definition they consider themselves innately superior and, in political terms, demand that society recognises their rightful dominion over non-white-skinned people - purely on the basis of the lucky accident of their antecedence.

I'm not defending Heimbach or anyone else. I'm on the side of free speech and against assault and battery.

But at the same time you don't acknowledge white-supremacists', or Heimbach's, own role or responsibilities with regard to their calls for achieving their ends - which basically amounts to 'by all means necessary'. For example, Heimbach advocated in January that Jews be removed from society and 'kebabbed', and has previously called for a holy war against non-whites, apparently in concordance with 'God's holy law' and with the aim of "creating a new homeland for whites around the entire world." Sounds like Jihadism to me.

You keep trying to suggest that I am somehow on the side of racists and white nationalists. I'm not.

No, I think the suggestion is that you're somewhat unduly partisan in who you reserve your condemnation for.

I'm just against scumbags to initiate violence. The issue with the leftists these days is that they actually go around trying to argue that it's RIGHT that they engage in violence to shut the bad guys up.

Similarly, the view that white-skinned people are innately superior to those of any and all other skin-colours, and therefore the white-skinned, being preferred by God, should be preferred in society and have dominion over others, and indeed claim for themselves the authority to ensure and enact this outcome, is also a 'religion'.

The problem here is the ideology of ideologues, not their point on the political compass. Defining those with whom one disagrees into a degenerate group, whether that be Nazis, Leftists, Jew Lovers, Gypsies, or whatever, and then seeking to limit their rights and freedoms, or at the least advocating a violent disregard of their rights and freedoms, perhaps even in the form of a mandatory or enforcible obligation, on the basis of that group membership, is not only bigotry, but hateful incitement.

If there's one thing I hate it's hateful people.

[Tero]

Enough with the talk. Im spraying all Trump hats with mace at the next riot.

[JimC]

Try nutmeg instead of mace...

[Tero]

Only 9.66 a bottle. Ten of these for the first Trump year?
https://www.amazon.com/SABRE-Red-Pepper ... pray&psc=1

[Hermit]

Enough with the talk. Im spraying all Trump hats with mace at the next riot.

More fun in spraying Trump heads with a mace. If nothing else, it'll trigger yet another rant by our organic Cambridge Analytica bot emulator.

[Forty Two]

Enough with the talk. Im spraying all Trump hats with mace at the next riot.

You're way behind. Folks have been doing that for a year now. Why not use some imagination, like a gravity knife or something?

Or, maybe try to assault someone other than women or old men:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/02 ... by-police/

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/03/0 ... p-protest/

Plenty of leftist scumsucking cunts spraying pepper spray around... use some imagination to get yourself noticed apart from the crowd.

[L'Emmerdeur]

And what makes it worse is when they try to justify their ridiculous violence as good because they are the righteous fighting against Nazis, white nationalists and Trump supporters.

Why does that make it worse?

It turns their movement from a political position to a religion. They are no different than "....onward Christian soldiers...marching as to war...with the cross of Jesus, going on before!"

They clothe themselves in (self)righteousness, declare themselves to hold the true morality, and then grant themselves not just the right, but the moral duty, to violently suppress heretics and infidels.

They have lost the ability to view individual rights in any objective sense. To them, not everyone has the same rights. THEY determine who has greater rights to express their opinions and views peaceably. If they think an idea is dangerous, or hateful, or "anti immigrant" or racist or xenophobic, or homophobic, or trans phobic, or any other phobic, then they grant themselves carte blanche to violently suppress the idea. They've come up with a moral claim to doing so.

It makes it worse, because not only do they do it -- but they do it because they think they are doing what is right and good and moral when they pepper spray a girl in a Trump hat in the face, when they punch a "white nationalist" (alleged) who is committing the offense of talking to a reporter, or when they dump piss on people who are peacefully walking in the street. It's one thing to do those things despite knowing it's wrong to do so. It's quite another to do those things and truly believe that one is doing right.

It usually takes religion to make good people do evil things. However, we can add Progressive Leftism to Steven Weinberg's quote. “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” We should just as "...or Progressive Leftism" to that quote, because they seem to be able to turn thuggery and unprovoked assault and battery into a moral virtue.

I don't agree that engaging in violence is somehow made worse by using a belief to justify it. Whatever the motivation, violence is uncalled for except in self defense.

So, while I see your point regarding people defending themselves from violent protesters, you go beyond that, and express a desire that violent protesters get a damn good thrashing. While doing so, you regularly use a political slur as if it added weight to your position. It actually detracts, because you're essentially condoning the escalation of politicized violence. You can wave your hand all you like with your vague "people defending themselves" but the people who will and have participated for the most part in politicized violence in response to "leftist scum" are in fact far right wing racists.

[pErvinalia]

It usually takes religion to make good people do evil things. However, we can add Progressive Leftism to Steven Weinberg's quote. “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” We should just as "...or Progressive Leftism" to that quote, because they seem to be able to turn thuggery and unprovoked assault and battery into a moral virtue.

More hyperbolic exaggeration. You've really got a knack for it.

[pErvinalia]

I'm not defending Heimbach or anyone else. I'm on the side of free speech and against assault and battery.

But at the same time you don't acknowledge white-supremacists', or Heimbach's, own role or responsibilities with regard to their calls for achieving their ends - which basically amounts to 'by all means necessary'. For example, Heimbach advocated in January that Jews be removed from society and 'kebabbed', and has previously called for a holy war against non-whites, apparently in concordance with 'God's holy law' and with the aim of "creating a new homeland for whites around the entire world." Sounds like Jihadism to me.

We just need to sit down and have a cup of tea and a nice chat with these people. This is how the real world works. Hateful bigots respect calm reasoned and well evidenced argument.

[Tero]

Had to defend myself elsewhere:

It's not the folks in Trump hats that have been using violence to intimidate speech. Are you sure you're in the right thread?

You never know. I have to be prepared. I blame Trump for the situation. He can't control his rabid fans. And since we now sell guns to insane people again, I have to carry the mace at all times, since I have an accent. That's enough to get you shot in Trump world.