Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

[Rum]

I voted 'remain' and I think leaving is a really bad idea. Just to be clear.

The 'yokes' comment was, as Brian spotted and I fear you did not, was meant to be ironic. If it needs explaining I was making the point that many a rabid 'leave' voter resented the control they perceived Brussels to have over the average guy on the street in Britain - and here we are talking about ID cards, which I would have said were rather more of a challenge to individual liberty. And yes - I'm against ID cards.

Where I do take exception is your generalization of the British. You love your stereotyping and you lump us all together rather too often Mr Scottish Dutch man.

[Scot Dutchy]

That is another angle. Talk about stereotyping though. It happens here all the time. It does not bother me personally. The British have a thing about it and this instance the Scots are more sensitive than the English but in my opinion nobody beats the Welsh. That is my personal experience.

I would still offer you that pint if I could.

[Brian Peacock]

Is this the start of a new pan-European accord? Pints are in the offing: the Dutchman has his wallet out, but how will the Cumbrian representative respond....?

[Scot Dutchy]

You bugger Brian.

[Rum]

Is this the start of a new pan-European accord? Pints are on the offing: the Dutchman has his wallet out, but how will the Cumbrian representative respond....?

Was thinking more of the incomprehensibility of a Scotsman with his wallet out.

...justto hammer home the stereotyping issue.

[Scot Dutchy]

You would be surprised.

[Hermit]

Here's one for Scot...

ID cards could assuage Brexit voters' migration fears, says report

...report from the Global Future thinktank ... electronic ID cards would be compulsory for anyone staying in the UK for more than 90 days. They would be used to claim entitlements and access public services, but could restrict those without the right to do so.

Thinktank, huh? It seems they didn't think this e-card thing through. What they propose is that if you don't have such a card you are ipso facto entitled to everything everyone else is. Wouldn't it make more sense to arrange it so that everybody has to have a card in order to be able to avail themselves to entitlements and access public services?

[Scot Dutchy]

You dont need an actual card as that would open it to fraud like the NHS card in the UK. Here you get a number. As a native you get it when your parents/guardians register your birth. It stays with you for the rest of your life.
As an immigrant after three months for EU citizens you apply for a resident permit if you have work or can support yourself and are given your citizens number. You can if you want receive a immigration ID card with the number on it but you have to pay. Without the number you are not entitled to any services.
For non-EU citizens you need an immigrants ID card before you enter the country if you intend to live here.

[Brian Peacock]

Here's one for Scot...

ID cards could assuage Brexit voters' migration fears, says report

...report from the Global Future thinktank ... electronic ID cards would be compulsory for anyone staying in the UK for more than 90 days. They would be used to claim entitlements and access public services, but could restrict those without the right to do so.

Thinktank, huh? It seems they didn't think this e-card thing through. What they propose is that if you don't have such a card you are ipso facto entitled to everything everyone else is. Wouldn't it make more sense to arrange it so that everybody has to have a card in order to be able to avail themselves to entitlements and access public services?

Yep. In Scotland there is this bit of photo-ID called the National Entitlement Card which is registered by the local council and acts as your bus pass, library card, proof of residence, and a few other things. It's something that could easily be extended.

Fears about ID cards not only seem misplaced but also totally at odds with the fact that most people choose to carry a data-mining homing device wherever they go anyway.


https://www.entitlementcard.org.uk/what-nec

[Scot Dutchy]

Interesting Brian. Since when has it existed. As you say it could be easily extended and maybe it is a trial run. Is it compulsory?
I think we will get ID cards though. Our driving licence has been geared up to being one. It acts like an ID card and damn well looks like one. It has plenty of security innovations and considering 12 million people have a driving licence it already is a major card for ID. You can buy an ID card at your town hall. It is compulsory to identify yourself with a photo ID when asked by people with authority to ask.

[Tero]

Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ump-brexit

[Rum]

Here's one for Scot...

ID cards could assuage Brexit voters' migration fears, says report

...report from the Global Future thinktank ... electronic ID cards would be compulsory for anyone staying in the UK for more than 90 days. They would be used to claim entitlements and access public services, but could restrict those without the right to do so.

Thinktank, huh? It seems they didn't think this e-card thing through. What they propose is that if you don't have such a card you are ipso facto entitled to everything everyone else is. Wouldn't it make more sense to arrange it so that everybody has to have a card in order to be able to avail themselves to entitlements and access public services?

Yep. In Scotland there is this bit of photo-ID called the National Entitlement Card which is registered by the local council and acts as your bus pass, library card, proof of residence, and a few other things. It's something that could easily be extended.

Fears about ID cards not only seem misplaced but also totally at odds with the fact that most people choose to carry a data-mining homing device wherever they go anyway.


https://www.entitlementcard.org.uk/what-nec

I've always felt there's a difference between google trying to sell you stuff and the State knowing who you are and requiring you to identify yourself when its agents tell you to. I may be splitting hairs but I have always had a negative gut reaction to the idea of compulsory ID cards. That old saw' nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide' doesn't wash for me.

[Scot Dutchy]

Sorry cant agree Rum. Never had any trouble about registering. It also means services reach the people that requires them. It is not about control. Are you on the voters registry? Not much different.

[Rum]

It is very different. And yes I am. The main difference is that that potential for abuse if you are unfortunate to come within the sights of authority for whatever reason. I well remember being stopped by the police in my hippie early twenties on no less than five ocassionally in all just because I had long hair and looked a bit rebellious. I like at the the illusion that if I mind my own business and don’t break the law I’ll be left alone.

[Brian Peacock]

Here's one for Scot...

ID cards could assuage Brexit voters' migration fears, says report

...report from the Global Future thinktank ... electronic ID cards would be compulsory for anyone staying in the UK for more than 90 days. They would be used to claim entitlements and access public services, but could restrict those without the right to do so.

Thinktank, huh? It seems they didn't think this e-card thing through. What they propose is that if you don't have such a card you are ipso facto entitled to everything everyone else is. Wouldn't it make more sense to arrange it so that everybody has to have a card in order to be able to avail themselves to entitlements and access public services?

Yep. In Scotland there is this bit of photo-ID called the National Entitlement Card which is registered by the local council and acts as your bus pass, library card, proof of residence, and a few other things. It's something that could easily be extended.

Fears about ID cards not only seem misplaced but also totally at odds with the fact that most people choose to carry a data-mining homing device wherever they go anyway.


https://www.entitlementcard.org.uk/what-nec

I've always felt there's a difference between google trying to sell you stuff and the State knowing who you are and requiring you to identify yourself when its agents tell you to. I may be splitting hairs but I have always had a negative gut reaction to the idea of compulsory ID cards. That old saw' nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide' doesn't wash for me.

Most interaction with the officialdom and the state, such as tax, pensions, benefits, banking, access to non-emergency healthcare, parking permits, etc etc, requires you to prove who you are. Some requires photo-ID, which is usually a drivers licence or passport, or some utility bills or bank statement. Every organisation seems to have different requirements, and some want more than one while others exclude some things or require some more specific kinds of ID. Often you need one form of ID to apply for another. It's a mess.

My solution, a national ID card that is also a passport - because that bit of your passport with your photo on it is already an ID card anyway, the European ID card - and everyone gets one when they turn 16 and are issued with their NI number. And if we don't trust the government to deal with our information responsibly then perhaps we should vote for more responsible politicians.