Australian 'no-go' zones

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Forty Two
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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:11 pm

rainbow wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:13 am
Cunt wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:24 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:02 am
I don't submit to religion, but I understand why you might.
would you hand out those pamphlets, in front of mosques and other areas where Muslims are found? To support the inclusion of LGBTQ+AIP in the Islamic community.
Would you hand out art showing the Pope buggering a choir-boy in a Catholic area in NI?
I wouldn't, no. But, if someone did, and some Catholics beat the shit out of the anti-pedophilia activist handing out the pictures, I would suggest that the anti-pedophilia activist did something I personally believe is tasteless and insulting, but perfectly legal and within her rights. The Catholics doing the beating are in the wrong, and should be prosecuted for their crimes.

I would also find it to be an unacceptable prior restraint on speech for the cops to stop the anti-pedophilia activist from distributing her leaflets, since she has a fundamental right to free expression to do so. In fact, stopping her from going there and distributing leaflets, in my country, could quite possibly be a federal crime in and of itself, and quite possibly could form the basis of a civil suit under 42 USC Sec. 1983, violation of a person's civil/constitutional rights under color of law, and I would suggest that the activist seek counsel and possibly file a lawsuit.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:23 pm

Cunt wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:02 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:52 am
Cunt wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:30 am
Those who submit to the will of Allah are identically incapable of offending muslims about their prophet.

It's funny how hard it is to tell apart an appeaser from a submitted adherent.
I'm not an appeaser, but I understand why you might be.
Do you remember the Texas 'Draw Mohommad' contest, where an attacker was shot by attendees?

Which side do you take on that? Is it wrong to have that kind of art? Is it wrong to attempt murder over that kind of art? Is there something in the middle?

Because the religion of submission requires only that you submit.
It's really very simple.

Drawing Muhammed is legal, even if some people think it's tasteless.
Mocking imagery of Jesus is legal, even if some people think it's tasteless.
Drawing President Trump dead in a pool of blood, drawn and quartered, with Calvin of Calvin and Hobbes pissing on his dead body is legal, even if some people think it's tasteless.

All of these things are legal in any neighborhood, and the people drawing them have a fundamental right to display them, talk about them, and hand them out in leaflets in whatever neighborhood they want, as long as it's not private property.

Other people have the right to protest or otherwise speak out against such activities, to descry it as hate, or offensive. They have every right to yell at the distributor of the leaflets and counter any argument - and to just make noise in protest, if they want. Whatever.

Neither side has the right nor the legal justification to hit someone or kill them or attack them, etc. in response to the leaflets or offensive displays.

It is a violation of fundamental human rights for the cops to impose a "prior restraint" to stop such speakers from entering neighborhoods where the cops think the offensive leaflets may cause other people to react illegally and violently. That is an affront to human dignity, and a massive oppression of individual rights and liberty. The cops are not the arbiters of justifiable offense. If someone calls the cops because a crime was committed, then they should investigate and prosecute. Their job is not to engage in some Orwellian thought-crime analysis, and determine what words and drawings the people they serve are allowed to see and hear.

Whichever individuals engage in criminal activity or violence should be prosecuted. They are in the wrong legally. In terms of decorum, polity, customary behaviors, etc., the people making various drawings and leaflets may well be morally or etiquette-wise in the "wrong," but that's for a free people to determine among themselves. It may be that Moslems walking around Christian sections of town with insulting pics of the Pope might not get much of a reaction, and it may be that Christian sections of town in Musselman neighborhoods might get a very angry reaction if they trot around pics of the Mighty Mo. So what? In the end, keep your hands to yourself, and it's all good.

Nobody has a right not to be offended. Not Christians. Not Muslims.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by NineBerry » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:54 pm

The police act because those "forms of speech" are crimes in Australian law. ...

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Cunt » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:05 pm

rainbow wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:13 am
Cunt wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:24 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:02 am
I don't submit to religion, but I understand why you might.
would you hand out those pamphlets, in front of mosques and other areas where Muslims are found? To support the inclusion of LGBTQ+AIP in the Islamic community.
Would you hand out art showing the Pope buggering a choir-boy in a Catholic area in NI?
It's funny how desperately you have to cast about to find a religious group which could be as awful as the one you are defending.

How are your actions different than the actions of an Islamist, fully submitted to the political group?

Why are you so afraid to be critical of violent bigotry? It isn't the Catholics in Australia who are presenting a threat of violence in response to free expression.

Of course, the law is now in favour of prosecuting blasphemy, so I guess I understand why so many more are willing to submit.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate
Free speech anywhere, is a threat to tyrants everywhere.

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:33 pm

In fact, back when Christians used to protest about "offensive" stuff said about Christians -- the response to them from the atheist community (of which I am a part) was "oh, you're offended? So fucking what?" That kind of thing. And, rightly so.

Now the Christians pretty much put up with whatever, understanding that others are allowed to have different views, even blasphemous ones. And, where there are protests, it's usually like a "strongly worded letter" from the Catholic League.

Should they start flipping out and beating the shit out of people passing out leaflets critical of the Pope or Christianity? Maybe then, the police will intervene and stop it before it starts!
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:39 pm

NineBerry wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:54 pm
The police act because those "forms of speech" are crimes in Australian law. ...
I don't think that's accurate. Please specify the "form of speech" you are referring to, and the law you claim it violates.

Do you mean passing out leaflets? Drawing cartoons? What?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Cunt » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:48 pm

You are going to frighten NineBerry away with your specific questions, Forty Two.

I think if you ask for clarity on certain issues, it qualifies as hate-speech...
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate
Free speech anywhere, is a threat to tyrants everywhere.


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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:55 pm

You referred to the "form" of speech. Form is different than substance. The Ozzie hate speech law doesn't prohibit particular forms. It prohibits - in varying iterations at the state and federal level - inciting hatred based on color, race, national origin and ethinicity. Being critical of a religion is generally not hate speech.

And, the reality is that what hermit was referring to was the reaction of the Moslems in the overwhelming Islamajamadingdong areas of Oz. I.e., it's not necessarily hate speech to draw a Mohaaaaaaaamet (piss be upon him) cartoon, but it might be hate speech if the cops think the Musselmen will get out of sorts if the cartoon is distributed in their neighborhood.

In any case, not everything Southern says is hate speech under the definitions in Oz, and certainly her mere presence (something Hermit referred to as justifiably resulting in police barring her from going somewhere.

Quote or cite what she spoke or wrote which would constitute a violation of that law. Then we can analyze it.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by NineBerry » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:58 pm

It seems you are suggesting that police in Australia operate outside the Law?

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:04 pm

Perish the thought, that police might overreach.

Whoever would think such a thing could happen?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Cunt » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:24 pm

Why is it so hard for you to be clear, NineBerry?

You can backpedal hard, but we'll still know what questions you backed away from...
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate
Free speech anywhere, is a threat to tyrants everywhere.

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:31 pm

Cunt,

This is a REMINDER that deliberately misrepresenting not only the views of others members but what they have posted, as you did here, here, and here, is the kind of malicious trolling which runs counter to the guidelines you agreed to abide by when you became a member of the forum. Please try and avoid similar postings in future.

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Rum » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:41 pm

Brian has obviously been converted to Islam. Why else would he criticise a critic who is criticising people for not criticising...er.. :hehe:

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Re: Australian 'no-go' zones

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:45 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:31 pm
Cunt,

This is a REMINDER that deliberately misrepresenting not only the views of others members but what they have posted, as you did here, here, and here, is the kind of malicious trolling which runs counter to the guidelines you agreed to abide by when you became a member of the forum. Please try and avoid similar postings in future.

Yer Mods
You've got to be fucking kidding, right?

Brian... come on.... what the hell....?

Horse shit.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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