Stanford sexual assault: Brock Turner's father sparks outrag

[Meekychuppet]

Of course it's opinion, but I also fact-based, and she didn't blame anyone. The main thrust of it is that nobody knows what really happened, he was convicted unjustly.

The facts are that two witnesses saw Turner humping an unconscious woman lying behind a dumpster with knickers and bra removed and that a medical examination revealed abrasions and bruising in her vagina. Turner ran away (like any innocent man, who was merely making out with a consenting woman naturally would ), was caught, charged with assault with intent to rape an intoxicated woman, sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object and sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object. Potentially the charges could have earned him 14 years in gaol. He was rightfully found guilty (Yes we know what happened. There are two witnesses and there is medical evidence) and sentenced to six months in gaol.


As for Flamingo blaming the victim, listen to her. Starting at 15:57, she quotes the victim: "Sometimes I think, if I hadn't gone then this never would've happened. But then I realised, it would have happened to someone else." Flamingo continues: "In other words she's saying Brock Turner was a predator looking for an innocent victim and she just happened to be the one. But no, whatever Brock turner is or isn't, if she hadn't been as drunk as she was, he couldn't have picked on her." So, what could Flamingo possibly mean other than firstly that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the crime because he is not a predator and secondly that the victim caused it by getting very drunk?

Where did you get this information?

[Hermit]

Of course it's opinion, but I also fact-based, and she didn't blame anyone. The main thrust of it is that nobody knows what really happened, he was convicted unjustly.

The facts are that two witnesses saw Turner humping an unconscious woman lying behind a dumpster with knickers and bra removed and that a medical examination revealed abrasions and bruising in her vagina. Turner ran away (like any innocent man, who was merely making out with a consenting woman naturally would ), was caught, charged with assault with intent to rape an intoxicated woman, sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object and sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object. Potentially the charges could have earned him 14 years in gaol. He was rightfully found guilty (Yes we know what happened. There are two witnesses and there is medical evidence) and sentenced to six months in gaol.


As for Flamingo blaming the victim, listen to her. Starting at 15:57, she quotes the victim: "Sometimes I think, if I hadn't gone then this never would've happened. But then I realised, it would have happened to someone else." Flamingo continues: "In other words she's saying Brock Turner was a predator looking for an innocent victim and she just happened to be the one. But no, whatever Brock turner is or isn't, if she hadn't been as drunk as she was, he couldn't have picked on her." So, what could Flamingo possibly mean other than firstly that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the crime because he is not a predator and secondly that the victim caused it by getting very drunk?

Where did you get this information?

The link you provided and the sentencing memorandum

[Meekychuppet]

Of course it's opinion, but I also fact-based, and she didn't blame anyone. The main thrust of it is that nobody knows what really happened, he was convicted unjustly.

The facts are that two witnesses saw Turner humping an unconscious woman lying behind a dumpster with knickers and bra removed and that a medical examination revealed abrasions and bruising in her vagina. Turner ran away (like any innocent man, who was merely making out with a consenting woman naturally would ), was caught, charged with assault with intent to rape an intoxicated woman, sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object and sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object. Potentially the charges could have earned him 14 years in gaol. He was rightfully found guilty (Yes we know what happened. There are two witnesses and there is medical evidence) and sentenced to six months in gaol.


As for Flamingo blaming the victim, listen to her. Starting at 15:57, she quotes the victim: "Sometimes I think, if I hadn't gone then this never would've happened. But then I realised, it would have happened to someone else." Flamingo continues: "In other words she's saying Brock Turner was a predator looking for an innocent victim and she just happened to be the one. But no, whatever Brock turner is or isn't, if she hadn't been as drunk as she was, he couldn't have picked on her." So, what could Flamingo possibly mean other than firstly that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the crime because he is not a predator and secondly that the victim caused it by getting very drunk?

Where did you get this information?

The link you provided and the sentencing memorandum

So you took the time to read that but the video was too challenging, thus proving that this is personal and you have no interest in the truth.

Gotcha, you're done. Hook, line and sinker.

QED.

[Hermit]

Of course it's opinion, but I also fact-based, and she didn't blame anyone. The main thrust of it is that nobody knows what really happened, he was convicted unjustly.

The facts are that two witnesses saw Turner humping an unconscious woman lying behind a dumpster with knickers and bra removed and that a medical examination revealed abrasions and bruising in her vagina. Turner ran away (like any innocent man, who was merely making out with a consenting woman naturally would ), was caught, charged with assault with intent to rape an intoxicated woman, sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object and sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object. Potentially the charges could have earned him 14 years in gaol. He was rightfully found guilty (Yes we know what happened. There are two witnesses and there is medical evidence) and sentenced to six months in gaol.


As for Flamingo blaming the victim, listen to her. Starting at 15:57, she quotes the victim: "Sometimes I think, if I hadn't gone then this never would've happened. But then I realised, it would have happened to someone else." Flamingo continues: "In other words she's saying Brock Turner was a predator looking for an innocent victim and she just happened to be the one. But no, whatever Brock turner is or isn't, if she hadn't been as drunk as she was, he couldn't have picked on her." So, what could Flamingo possibly mean other than firstly that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the crime because he is not a predator and secondly that the victim caused it by getting very drunk?

Where did you get this information?

The link you provided and the sentencing memorandum

So you took the time to read that but the video was too challenging, thus proving that this is personal and you have no interest in the truth.

Initially, I listened to the first three minutes of Flamingo vlog as soon as I saw your link to it. I gave up because it did not seem like she was going to provide any facts we don't already know about. In the end I listened to the rest of it because you kept pressing for me to do so, and my initial impression turned out to be right. You could have saved me most of it by simply directing my attention to the crowning piece of drivel at the end of her waffling diatribe.

I note that you have given up on your claims that nobody knows what really happened and that Turner was convicted unjustly. Flamingo, by the way, does not even make the first claim, and only supports the second by blaming the crime on the victim. Apparently a victim of sexual assault is the cause of it if she is drunk. Here's a newsflash for her, and for anybody of like mind: 1. A victim's drunkenness does not constitute a permit to commit a sexual assault. 2. Sexual assaults are not initiated by a victim's drunkenness. They are initiated by the people who perpetrate sexual assaults.

[Meekychuppet]

Initially, I listened to the first three minutes of Flamingo vlog as soon as I saw your link to it. I gave up because it did not seem like she was going to provide any facts we don't already know about. In the end I listened to the rest of it because you kept pressing for me to do so, and my initial impression turned out to be right. You could have saved me most of it by simply directing my attention to the crowning piece of drivel at the end of her waffling diatribe.

I note that you have given up on your claims that nobody knows what really happened and that Turner was convicted unjustly. Flamingo, by the way, does not even make the first claim, and only supports the second by blaming the crime on the victim. Apparently a victim of sexual assault is the cause of it if she is drunk. Here's a newsflash for her, and for anybody of like mind: 1. A victim's drunkenness does not constitute a permit to commit a sexual assault. 2. Sexual assaults are not initiated by a victim's drunkenness. They are initiated by the people who perpetrate sexual assaults.

I haven't given up on them, I'm just not going to bang my head against a wall. He may well be as awful as people say he is, I really don't know, nor am I afraid to say so, but what bothers me immensely is that there is a huge impetus to catch the white whale here and those people are willing to sacrifice a great deal of our legal protection in order to do it.

[Hermit]

Initially, I listened to the first three minutes of Flamingo vlog as soon as I saw your link to it. I gave up because it did not seem like she was going to provide any facts we don't already know about. In the end I listened to the rest of it because you kept pressing for me to do so, and my initial impression turned out to be right. You could have saved me most of it by simply directing my attention to the crowning piece of drivel at the end of her waffling diatribe.

I note that you have given up on your claims that nobody knows what really happened and that Turner was convicted unjustly. Flamingo, by the way, does not even make the first claim, and only supports the second by blaming the crime on the victim. Apparently a victim of sexual assault is the cause of it if she is drunk. Here's a newsflash for her, and for anybody of like mind: 1. A victim's drunkenness does not constitute a permit to commit a sexual assault. 2. Sexual assaults are not initiated by a victim's drunkenness. They are initiated by the people who perpetrate sexual assaults.

I haven't given up on them, I'm just not going to bang my head against a wall. He may well be as awful as people say he is, I really don't know, nor am I afraid to say so, but what bothers me immensely is that there is a huge impetus to catch the white whale here and those people are willing to sacrifice a great deal of our legal protection in order to do it.

Do address the facts that contrary to your assertions do exist. Keep in mind that not even Ms Flamingo disputes them. She just reinterprets what they mean. Do you agree with her that the woman who was sexually assaulted was responsible for the crime by virtue of being so drunk that she passed out, or do you have some other reason for saying that Brock Turner was unjustly convicted of committing a sexual assault?

[Meekychuppet]

Initially, I listened to the first three minutes of Flamingo vlog as soon as I saw your link to it. I gave up because it did not seem like she was going to provide any facts we don't already know about. In the end I listened to the rest of it because you kept pressing for me to do so, and my initial impression turned out to be right. You could have saved me most of it by simply directing my attention to the crowning piece of drivel at the end of her waffling diatribe.

I note that you have given up on your claims that nobody knows what really happened and that Turner was convicted unjustly. Flamingo, by the way, does not even make the first claim, and only supports the second by blaming the crime on the victim. Apparently a victim of sexual assault is the cause of it if she is drunk. Here's a newsflash for her, and for anybody of like mind: 1. A victim's drunkenness does not constitute a permit to commit a sexual assault. 2. Sexual assaults are not initiated by a victim's drunkenness. They are initiated by the people who perpetrate sexual assaults.

I haven't given up on them, I'm just not going to bang my head against a wall. He may well be as awful as people say he is, I really don't know, nor am I afraid to say so, but what bothers me immensely is that there is a huge impetus to catch the white whale here and those people are willing to sacrifice a great deal of our legal protection in order to do it.

Do address the facts that contrary to your assertions do exist. Keep in mind that not even Ms Flamingo disputes them. She just reinterprets what they mean. Do you agree with her that the woman who was sexually assaulted was responsible for the crime by virtue of being so drunk that she passed out, or do you have some other reason for saying that Brock Turner was unjustly convicted of committing a sexual assault?

Fiamengo makes no such assertion.

[Hermit]

Do address the facts that contrary to your assertions do exist. Keep in mind that not even Ms Flamingo disputes them. She just reinterprets what they mean.

Fiamengo makes no such assertion.

Yes she has. I have quoted her doing so in this post. Perhaps you have not read that bit, so here it is again to save you scrolling up.

• As for Flamingo blaming the victim, listen to her. Starting at 15:57, she quotes the victim: "Sometimes I think, if I hadn't gone then this never would've happened. But then I realised, it would have happened to someone else." Flamingo continues: "In other words she's saying Brock Turner was a predator looking for an innocent victim and she just happened to be the one. But no, whatever Brock turner is or isn't, if she hadn't been as drunk as she was, he couldn't have picked on her." So, what could Flamingo possibly mean other than firstly that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the crime because he is not a predator and secondly that the victim caused it by getting very drunk?

[Meekychuppet]

Do address the facts that contrary to your assertions do exist. Keep in mind that not even Ms Flamingo disputes them. She just reinterprets what they mean.

Fiamengo makes no such assertion.

Yes she has. I have quoted her doing so in this post. Perhaps you have not read that bit, so here it is again to save you scrolling up.

• As for Flamingo blaming the victim, listen to her. Starting at 15:57, she quotes the victim: "Sometimes I think, if I hadn't gone then this never would've happened. But then I realised, it would have happened to someone else." Flamingo continues: "In other words she's saying Brock Turner was a predator looking for an innocent victim and she just happened to be the one. But no, whatever Brock turner is or isn't, if she hadn't been as drunk as she was, he couldn't have picked on her." So, what could Flamingo possibly mean other than firstly that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the crime because he is not a predator and secondly that the victim caused it by getting very drunk?

No, you have quoted yourself, and what she is saying is that if drunkenness makes a person not responsible for their actions then why does this not apply to him as well as her?

[Hermit]

Do address the facts that contrary to your assertions do exist. Keep in mind that not even Ms Flamingo disputes them. She just reinterprets what they mean.

Fiamengo makes no such assertion.

Yes she has. I have quoted her doing so in this post. Perhaps you have not read that bit, so here it is again to save you scrolling up.

• As for Flamingo blaming the victim, listen to her. Starting at 15:57, she quotes the victim: "Sometimes I think, if I hadn't gone then this never would've happened. But then I realised, it would have happened to someone else." Flamingo continues: "In other words she's saying Brock Turner was a predator looking for an innocent victim and she just happened to be the one. But no, whatever Brock turner is or isn't, if she hadn't been as drunk as she was, he couldn't have picked on her." So, what could Flamingo possibly mean other than firstly that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the crime because he is not a predator and secondly that the victim caused it by getting very drunk?

No, you have quoted yourself, and what she is saying is that if drunkenness makes a person not responsible for their actions then why does this not apply to him as well as her?

Again, this time with the bits where I did not quote myself in bold.

Anyway, I take it you agree with Flamingo in so far as she says that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the sexual assault because he is not a predator and that the victim caused it by getting very drunk.

[Meekychuppet]

Do address the facts that contrary to your assertions do exist. Keep in mind that not even Ms Flamingo disputes them. She just reinterprets what they mean.

Fiamengo makes no such assertion.

Yes she has. I have quoted her doing so in this post. Perhaps you have not read that bit, so here it is again to save you scrolling up.

• As for Flamingo blaming the victim, listen to her. Starting at 15:57, she quotes the victim: "Sometimes I think, if I hadn't gone then this never would've happened. But then I realised, it would have happened to someone else." Flamingo continues: "In other words she's saying Brock Turner was a predator looking for an innocent victim and she just happened to be the one. But no, whatever Brock turner is or isn't, if she hadn't been as drunk as she was, he couldn't have picked on her." So, what could Flamingo possibly mean other than firstly that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the crime because he is not a predator and secondly that the victim caused it by getting very drunk?

No, you have quoted yourself, and what she is saying is that if drunkenness makes a person not responsible for their actions then why does this not apply to him as well as her?

Again, this time with the bits where I did not quote myself in bold.

Anyway, I take it you agree with Flamingo in so far as she says that Brook Taylor is not at fault for the sexual assault because he is not a predator and that the victim caused it by getting very drunk.

No, I have asked you a question and I'd like you to answer it.

[Hermit]

I have asked you a question and I'd like you to answer it.

LOL @ that demand after your steadfast refusal to reply to this question. One rule for you, another rule for me? I don't think so. Anyway, I'll leave you to prattle on. Undoubtedly you'll insist on having the last word. Go for it while I talk with people with whom it is possible to have a discussion.

[pErvinalia]

I'm repeatedly stunned at some of the people who wind up at rationalist forums.

[laklak]

I know. Most of us probably belong at a pub somewhere, but we don't have any friends IRL.

[Meekychuppet]

I have asked you a question and I'd like you to answer it.

LOL @ that demand after your steadfast refusal to reply to this question. One rule for you, another rule for me? I don't think so. Anyway, I'll leave you to prattle on. Undoubtedly you'll insist on having the last word. Go for it while I talk with people with whom it is possible to have a discussion.

That link goes to the top of page six of this thread. I don't know what you mean.