Here comes the other economic shoe dropping...

[Hermit]

"Here comes the other economic shoe dropping..." Coito, over the past three months you actually reported several hundred economic shoes dropping in 160 posts. How many more are there to drop until the economic apocalypse descends upon us, and can you give us a date for that? You're beginning - ever so slightly - to sound like one of those religious end of the world nuts. The only difference seems to be that you don't make the mistake of being specific. Just the same, the tenor of doom and gloom is getting a little threadbare due to being beaten to death. Bears like you are a dime a dozen, and invariably they fall silent every time bust turns to boom.

[Coito ergo sum]

Ah, yes, another post expressing how a thread is not to someone's liking. If you aren't interested in the topic of this thread, then by all means go to threads you're interested in. If we all went around posting how droll and boring every thread was that we weren't interested in, nobody would be able to hold a discussion at all.

Moreover - this thread is basically about economic news. I could keep starting new threads for each new economic news reports, or I can post timely, newsworthy stories in one thread about the economy.

I've not predicted any apocalypse. To say the economy is going to shit is not a prediction of an economic apocalypse, nor is it a prediction of the end times. That's your own imagination.

You may wish to stick your head in the sand and pretend that everything is fine, and that there aren't any economic problems.

I'll be the first to cheer for a boom. But, I've got news for you, recognizing reality and understanding that we haven't had anything approaching a boom in the last couple of years, and one is not looking too likely at the moment, are not magic words that will conjure the bad economy into existence. They're statements of fact about what is.

[Coito ergo sum]

Nonfarm payrolls were unchanged last month, the Labor Department said Friday. It was the first time since 1945 that the government has reported a net monthly job change of zero. The August payrolls report was the worst since September 2010, while nonfarm employment for June and July was revised to show 58,000 fewer jobs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44370462/ns/business/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44371346 DJIA down 200+ points...

[Ian]

"Here comes the other economic shoe dropping..." Coito, over the past three months you actually reported several hundred economic shoes dropping in 160 posts. How many more are there to drop until the economic apocalypse descends upon us, and can you give us a date for that? You're beginning - ever so slightly - to sound like one of those religious end of the world nuts. The only difference seems to be that you don't make the mistake of being specific. Just the same, the tenor of doom and gloom is getting a little threadbare due to being beaten to death. Bears like you are a dime a dozen, and invariably they fall silent every time bust turns to boom.

Now now... this sort of economic analysis has in fact accurately predicted all nine of the last three recessions.

Besides, this thread has been going for sixteen months now. Sooner or later, there's bound to be one quarter of negative growth.

[Coito ergo sum]

"Here comes the other economic shoe dropping..." Coito, over the past three months you actually reported several hundred economic shoes dropping in 160 posts. How many more are there to drop until the economic apocalypse descends upon us, and can you give us a date for that? You're beginning - ever so slightly - to sound like one of those religious end of the world nuts. The only difference seems to be that you don't make the mistake of being specific. Just the same, the tenor of doom and gloom is getting a little threadbare due to being beaten to death. Bears like you are a dime a dozen, and invariably they fall silent every time bust turns to boom.

Now now... this sort of economic analysis has in fact accurately predicted all nine of the last three recessions.

Besides, this thread has been going for sixteen months now. Sooner or later, there's bound to be one quarter of negative growth.

GDP growth is not the sole measure of a healthy economy. You know darn well that this economy under the last administration would be painted as "the worst economy since the Great Depression," and 9.1% unemployment would trump a 1/4% GDP growth as a real indicator of what's happening in the economy, and you also know darn well that you wouldn't be worried about any sort of belaboring of the horrible economy under the previous administration. Have a little objective consistency.

And, moreover, the reason this thread has been able to continue for 16 months is precisely because the economy has sucked ass for longer than that. You can try all you want to put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

[laklak]

But there's no recession. And no inflation. Didn't you get the memo? There may be a "double dip", but that's to be expected, nothing to see here, just move along. Your Federal Family has the situation well in hand.

On a lighter note, production of Victory Gin is at record levels, and the chocolate ration has been increased from 4 to 3 grams weekly.

Remember to support our troops in Eurasia, with whom we are now and have always been at war.

[Hermit]

this thread has been going for sixteen months now.

Oops. That'll teach me not to check the date of the opening post properly.

I do very much appreciate Coito's decision to keep the shoe collection in the one wardrobe. If it wasn't so relentlessly onesided, it might attract more interest, though. Has he commented on the dearth of quarterly periods of "negative growth" (why do economists insist on using such cheesy terminology?) yet, and how misleading those statistics are? I guess he must have, but my attention span is not quite up to that of a rag-doll cat, especially with that monotonous drone here.

On the other hand, my previous post elicited intriguing information; "the other shoe dropping" apparently does not signify an economic apocalypse. Now I am on tenterhooks until I do find out what "the other shoe dropping" does signify. Also, which other shoe signifies whatever it signifies as it drops. We've had so many of them now, it feels like the Chinese water torture. Drip, drip, drip.... O pleeeeease put me out of my misery already.


Edit: I see he's just done it. Onya, Coito. You are doing well in the predictability stakes. And drip, drip, dr...

[Ian]

"Here comes the other economic shoe dropping..." Coito, over the past three months you actually reported several hundred economic shoes dropping in 160 posts. How many more are there to drop until the economic apocalypse descends upon us, and can you give us a date for that? You're beginning - ever so slightly - to sound like one of those religious end of the world nuts. The only difference seems to be that you don't make the mistake of being specific. Just the same, the tenor of doom and gloom is getting a little threadbare due to being beaten to death. Bears like you are a dime a dozen, and invariably they fall silent every time bust turns to boom.

Now now... this sort of economic analysis has in fact accurately predicted all nine of the last three recessions.

Besides, this thread has been going for sixteen months now. Sooner or later, there's bound to be one quarter of negative growth.

GDP growth is not the sole measure of a healthy economy. You know darn well that this economy under the last administration would be painted as "the worst economy since the Great Depression," and 9.1% unemployment would trump a 1/4% GDP growth as a real indicator of what's happening in the economy, and you also know darn well that you wouldn't be worried about any sort of belaboring of the horrible economy under the previous administration. Have a little objective consistency.

And, moreover, the reason this thread has been able to continue for 16 months is precisely because the economy has sucked ass for longer than that. You can try all you want to put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Hey, I never said everything was rosy. Point of fact, I think the economy rather stinks right now. But with a title like "here come the other shoe dropping", one might think that negative growth would be a pretty good big-picture measuring stick for that notion. We are talking macro, right?

You're right that I wouldn't have much trouble slapping the previous administration for this economy. They're far more at fault for it than the current administration. But I didn't start this thread. And back at RDF I didn't start a similar one in late 2008. But if it makes you happy while Obama is still in office, go ahead and post every time the Dow dips a little on the opening bell. Maybe this thread will go another sixteen months.

[Coito ergo sum]

this thread has been going for sixteen months now.

Oops. That'll teach me not to check the date of the opening post properly.

I do very much appreciate Coito's decision to keep the shoe collection in the one wardrobe. If it wasn't so relentlessly onesided,

Post the other sides, as you see it. Let's see the mountain evidence that everything is awesome.

it might attract more interest, though.

You mean, others can't contribute their different perspective? My perspective is that the economy sucks ass. For example the only reason the unemployment rate right now is "only" 9.1% is because the Bureau of Labor Statistics has shrunk the labor pool. The working age population hasn't gone down, but if we calculated unemployment based on the labor force when Obama took office, the unemployment rate would be over 11%.

Feel free to post the other side, if there is one.

I love how when something is perceived to be anti-Obama that all of a sudden EVERYONE must post all sides to a story. On most threads, one person posting their view and contribution, followed by others taking the opposite view and posting their information, is sufficient. For some reason here, the thread is of no interest because I don't do all the work.

Has he commented on the dearth of quarterly periods of "negative growth" (why do economists insist on using such cheesy terminology?)

That has been commented on. I just mentioned that GDP is only one indicator. And, GDP growth this year has been alarmingly low. Why the reference to "has he commented?" You mean, if I go to other threads, I'll find you commenting on every side of an issue. If there is an anti-teabagger thread, I'll find you chiming on on the teabagger side of the issue, making sure you discuss all "sides" of that issue?

yet, and how misleading those statistics are? I guess he must have, but my attention span is not quite up to that of a rag-doll cat, especially with that monotonous drone here.

It's only a monotonous drone to you because you support those in power right now. You'd rather only here stuff in favor of your team.

On the other hand, my previous post elicited intriguing information; "the other shoe dropping" apparently does not signify an economic apocalypse.

Why would it mean an "apocalypse?" Or, as you put it, some sort of doomsday prophecy? Bad economic events do not mean universal disaster, necessarily.

Now I am on tenterhooks until I do find out what "the other shoe dropping" does signify.

When another shoe drops, it's means that something else bad happens. I'm sure you can puzzle it out from there.

Also, which other shoe signifies whatever it signifies as it drops. We've had so many of them now, it feels like the Chinese water torture. Drip, drip, drip.... O pleeeeease put me out of my misery already.

You could always go and discuss issues you're interested in, rather than derail threads that are about reasonable, newsworthy topics. I know you don't like the news, because it doesn't fit your hopes, dreams and preconceived notions, but reality is reality.

Edit: I see he's just done it. Onya, Coito. You are doing well in the predictability stakes. And drip, drip, dr...

You'll have to be more specific.

And, I'm sure you'd remain silent if this same economic situation was occurring under Obama's predecessor. You'd be tired of haranguing the poor man, wouldn't you?

[Coito ergo sum]

"Here comes the other economic shoe dropping..." Coito, over the past three months you actually reported several hundred economic shoes dropping in 160 posts. How many more are there to drop until the economic apocalypse descends upon us, and can you give us a date for that? You're beginning - ever so slightly - to sound like one of those religious end of the world nuts. The only difference seems to be that you don't make the mistake of being specific. Just the same, the tenor of doom and gloom is getting a little threadbare due to being beaten to death. Bears like you are a dime a dozen, and invariably they fall silent every time bust turns to boom.

Now now... this sort of economic analysis has in fact accurately predicted all nine of the last three recessions.

Besides, this thread has been going for sixteen months now. Sooner or later, there's bound to be one quarter of negative growth.

GDP growth is not the sole measure of a healthy economy. You know darn well that this economy under the last administration would be painted as "the worst economy since the Great Depression," and 9.1% unemployment would trump a 1/4% GDP growth as a real indicator of what's happening in the economy, and you also know darn well that you wouldn't be worried about any sort of belaboring of the horrible economy under the previous administration. Have a little objective consistency.

And, moreover, the reason this thread has been able to continue for 16 months is precisely because the economy has sucked ass for longer than that. You can try all you want to put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Hey, I never said everything was rosy. Point of fact, I think the economy rather stinks right now.

Nice. We agree on that.

But with a title like "here come the other shoe dropping", one might think that negative growth would be a pretty good big-picture measuring stick for that notion. We are talking macro, right?

I think it's pretty clear that from the OP onward, we were talking about all indicators, and various news events revealing that new economic debacles were in the offiing.

Sure the thread morphed into a longer term "economic news" thread. But, I figured rather than start new thread after new thread, just plopping economic news in one thread would be the most reasonable. Nobody has suggested the thread be split, so it seems that I am within the guidelines and approval of the mods in doing so. Nothing in here has been an attack on another person, and I've not been rude to anyone. Yet, for some reason, every now and again, someone gets their panties in a bunch because for some reason I don't see the light about how there are awesome things on the other side of the coin. Seraph is the latest, and he chided me for not talking about some good things. Well, I'll leave it to him and anyone else who wants to do so to adopt that ground on the field and we can then do.....dare I say it....something that....gasp....I'm not sure if we could handle......umm.....well.... "discuss" the issue....

Instead I post a few things, and then someone does a driveby chiding me for daring to post the information in the first place.

You're right that I wouldn't have much trouble slapping the previous administration for this economy. They're far more at fault for it than the current administration.

That's debatable, isn't it? I thought you were the one saying that this administration had pulled us out of the bad economy of the previous administration. So, when the GDP goes negative again, and you have no indicator left to hang your hat on, you will blame the administration 3 years ago for the new official "recession?"

But I didn't start this thread. And back at RDF I didn't start a similar one in late 2008.

Neither did I. I do recall on RDF that when unemployment was hit 5%, folks went bat-shit crazy, and an entire thread was dedicated over a couple of years to the unemployment rate. I remember that at that point in time, the Administration controlled and rigged the BLS numbers and that the unemployment rate wasn't "really" 5% or in the 5% range - it was "really" double that, because we weren't taking into account those that "fell off the unemployment rolls," and "stopped looking for work." Remember that?

Well, if we use that same analysis now - which, of course, you hear NOBODY undertaking these days -- strange, huh? We ought to be talking about how the unemployment rate is "really" about 18.2%, and that Obama is cooking the books at the BLS....but, of course, we all "know" that Obama would never do that, right?

When the stock market was doing well and the GDP was growing, over at RDF in 2008 and prior, you never much about how that meant that there wasn't a recession. Quite the opposite - those were irrelevant numbers, and the "high" unemployment rate of 5.4% or 5.7% was an indicator that people were hurting out there, and GWBush was "out of touch." Remember those things?

But if it makes you happy while Obama is still in office, go ahead and post every time the Dow dips a little on the opening bell.

I don't post every time the dow dips a little - I post when it dips a lot - when it "plunges."

If it makes you happy while Obama is still in office, go ahead and ignore reality and just talk about the stuff that supports him. Fight the good fight in favor of the administration.

Maybe this thread will go another sixteen months.

It might-- or, we could just stick our fingers in our ears, close our eyes, and yell, "la la la la la la la la la!!!!!" so that we don't see what the reality is.

What would you rather talk about?

The closing of Guantanamo Bay?
The immediate pull out of Iraq? (Or, Obama's clear statement that the Iraq War was a success?)
The increase in troops in Afghanistan, along with the increase in American soldier deaths?
The fact that the Patriot Act has been renewed every time it has come up?
The fact that we still use extraordinary rendition?
The fact that the Obama Administration uses warrantless wiretaps still? In Jewel v. NSA, the Obama Administration argued that the "state secrets" privilege required the court to dismiss a warrantless wiretapping case out of hand - want to discuss how candidate Obama chided the Bush administration for making exactly the same argument in exactly the same type of cases? The Obama Adminstration has also claimed that the government cannot be held accountable for illegal surveillance under any federal statutes, and it based that argument on the USA PATRIOT Act! Wanna talk about that instead?

How about talking about how the Obama administration sought to make it easier to wiretap internet communications? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/us/27wiretap.html

Wanna talk about how we spent hundreds of millions of dollars on "green jobs" that never materialized, and how the "shovel ready" jobs were not really "shovel ready?"

Wanna talk about how Obama said it was unpatriotic and unamerican to run up the debt Bush ran up in 8 years, and then he is on pace to match that total....in 4 years.....?

Wanna talk about how the debt is now 100% of GDP?

How about the "no bid" contract controversy under Bush? Want to talk about how Obama promised to end no-bid contracts for contracts over $25,000?

How about allowing 5 days of public comment before signing bills?

How about his stance against revolving door lobbyists?

I think other issues are best left to other threads, but you seem to object to the idea of talking about economic issues. You seem to think that talking about other issues would be better. Any of the above suggestions more to your liking? You tell me.

[Hermit]

I'm sure you'd remain silent if this same economic situation was occurring under Obama's predecessor. You'd be tired of haranguing the poor man, wouldn't you?

I don't recall ever having commented on the economic effects of Bush's policies while he was in office. So, no. Also, don't assume I like Obama's.

[Coito ergo sum]

"I’m talking about a jobs program of a trillion dollars or more. We’ve got to put Americans to work. That’s the only way to revitalize this economy. When people work they earn money, they spend that money, and that’s what gets the economy up and going," Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) told NBC's "Meet the Press." http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ogram.html

[Atheist-Lite]

"I’m talking about a jobs program of a trillion dollars or more. We’ve got to put Americans to work. That’s the only way to revitalize this economy. When people work they earn money, they spend that money, and that’s what gets the economy up and going," Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) told NBC's "Meet the Press." http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ogram.html

They can't afford too much to trickle down because of the risk of hyper-inflation as too much new money follows the same or a declining consumer product base(mostly imported from China).

[Schneibster]

"I’m talking about a jobs program of a trillion dollars or more. We’ve got to put Americans to work. That’s the only way to revitalize this economy. When people work they earn money, they spend that money, and that’s what gets the economy up and going," Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) told NBC's "Meet the Press." http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ogram.html

Are you laughing because you think she's wrong, or because the idiot teabaggers holding the country hostage will never vote for it?

Fair warning: I'm a member of the hippie caucus.

[Coito ergo sum]

"I’m talking about a jobs program of a trillion dollars or more. We’ve got to put Americans to work. That’s the only way to revitalize this economy. When people work they earn money, they spend that money, and that’s what gets the economy up and going," Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) told NBC's "Meet the Press." http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ogram.html

Are you laughing because you think she's wrong, or because the idiot teabaggers holding the country hostage will never vote for it?

Fair warning: I'm a member of the hippie caucus.

I'm laughing because we don't have $1 trillion to spend. So, she's suggesting that we either borrow $1 trillion from the Chinese or other foreign governments, or issue another $1 trillion in treasury bonds, thereby flooding the money supply (again), and borrowing the money from ourselves.

We were downgraded by Standard & Poors for a reason. What do you think would happen if we heaped ANOTHER $1 trillion in debt?

It's not just teabaggers who "won't go for it." It's anybody with half a brain. Teabaggers just happen to be right, by chance, on this one. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.